Radiative gases do this in our atmosphere.
Not exact matches
That's why the «
radiative forcing» concept works — it doesn't matter if the initial push is from greenhouse
gases or the sun.
The mechanism for reducing anthropogenic global warming, initiated through
radiative forcing of greenhouse
gases, is to stop emissions and reduce their concentration in the atmosphere to levels which
do not stimulate carbon feedbacks.
... The Earth's atmospheric methane concentration has increased by about 150 % since 1750, and it accounts for 20 % of the total
radiative forcing from all of the long - lived and globally mixed greenhouse
gases (these
gases don't include water vapor which is by far the largest component of the greenhouse effect).
The
radiative efficiency of CH4 vs. CO2 has nothing to
do with the respective lifetimes of the
gases.
And Bob, don't forget to explain just how these natural factors would negate the known and demonstrated
radiative physics of greenhouse
gases.
That's why the «
radiative forcing» concept works — it doesn't matter if the initial push is from greenhouse
gases or the sun.
The
radiative transfer problem is best addressed numerically with a sufficient number of vertical layers to resolve the atmospheric temperature and absorber distributions and with a sufficient number of spectral intervals to resolve the spectral dependence of the contributing
gases — as is being
done in most GCMs.
This goes beyond the translation into
radiative forcing equivalents, and attempts to factor in that a long - lived greenhouse
gas will be around to
do things to the climate longer than a short lived one.
Yup, but by definition as we add greenhouse
gasses, we depart from equilibrium, so the processes
do not cancel and there is a net flow of energy from
radiative to kinetic.
The empirical measurement of
radiative forcings from greenhouse
gases does not prove forcings?
All other things
do not remain equal with increasing concentrations of
radiative gases.
«The IPCC has failed to convincingly explain the pause in terms of external
radiative forcing from greenhouse
gases...» — That's because the tropospheric pause has nothing to
do with GH
gases, which never «pause» in their action, bit rather, the pause has everything to
do with natural variability in the rate of energy flow from ocean to atmosphere.
The
radiative characteristics of greenhouse
gases do not alter surface temperature but instead affect atmospheric volume and circulation.
Due to the important role of ozone in driving temperature changes in the stratosphere as well as
radiative forcing of surface climate, several different groups have provided databases characterizing the time - varying concentrations of this key
gas that can be used to force global climate change simulations (particularly for those models that
do not calculate ozone from photochemical principles).
RCP4.5 aims to achieve stable
radiative forcing in 2100; however, this
does not imply that greenhouse
gas emissions, greenhouse
gas concentrations, or the climate system are stable.
Therefore, our results confirm that positive
radiative forcings (e.g., from human - caused increases in greenhouse
gas concentrations) are necessary in order for the Earth to have warmed as much as it
did over the 20th century.
Maybe you don't know much about the sum of
radiative forcings, or findings from paleoclimate, that allow climatologists to calculate that human emissions of greenhouse
gases are responsible for 100 + % of recent warming, but that doesn't mean nobody
does.
Furthermore, the CMIP3 archive
does not include diagnostics of
radiative forcing from aerosols, ozone, or greenhouse
gases other than carbon dioxide.
That is why established science
does not list the
radiative features of constituent
gases as one of the factors that influence the equilibrium temperature of planets with atmospheres.
First, whether or not the MWP or LIA were global in extent has nothing to
do with AGW, which is based upon the known
radiative effect of greenhouse
gases and the amounts we are pumping into the atmosphere.
I didn't take specific heat of the two
gasses into account, thinking that the
radiative effect would be dominant.
I don't have a handy set of equations to estimate the combined methane plus co2 plus minor
gases radiative forcing.
Also interesting that they don't understand that water vapour feedback, no matter what it's magnitude, applies equally to anything that causes a change in
radiative forcing for the planet — more GH
gases, Albedo change, any GCR induced changes in clouds.
Thermal
radiative equilibrium for his black boundaries is isothermal, and if the
gas has a different thermal equilibrium then the system perpetually violates the second law with a
radiative - gravitaional «heat fountain» that runs without work being
done, precisely as my silver wire example
does.
We will also assume that the
gas does not absorb or emit at the frequencies associated with these temps (i.e. we can ignore
radiative transfer).
I believe I was quite clear in pointing out that this data
did not exist for an atmosphere without
radiative gases.
Konrad; Could you please give me a direct yes or no answer to the following question —
Do you believe that strong vertical tropospheric convective circulation would continue without
radiative gases?
David, could I please have a yes or no answer to the following —
Do you believe that strong vertical tropospheric convective circulation would continue without
radiative gases?
N2 and O2 are generally called non
radiative gases in climate science, but they
do absorb and emit IR.
Show me why thermal conductivity of
gases can be so low and yet they can somehow have this
radiative forcing effect — especially when it is claimed Nitrogen, Oxygen and Argon
do not contribute to the «greenhouse effect».
Could you please give me a direct yes or no answer to the following question —
Do you believe that strong vertical tropospheric convective circulation would continue without
radiative gases?
Joel could you please give me a direct yes or no answer to the following question —
Do you believe that strong vertical tropospheric convective circulation would continue without
radiative gases?
Radiative gases cool our atmosphere at all concentrations above 0.0 ppm, with water vapour
doing the bulk of the work.
Do you believe
radiative gases are critical for tropospheric convective circulation or not?
They
did not properly model the critical role of
radiative gases in tropospheric convective circulation.
Yes, inert
gases do absorb incident Solar radiation in the UV and visible spectra, so the atmosphere warms to
radiative balance, and the temperature at the base of the atmosphere determines (or «supports») the surface temperature.
--
does it assume that tropospheric convective circulation would continue without
radiative gases?
Thus with GHGs in an atmosphere the circulation can slow down because more of its job of maintaining top of atmosphere energy balance is
done for it by those
radiative gases.
I've
done more involved regressions taking insolation, ice coverage and other
radiative gasses into account and gotten even closer results, which gives me confidence that K & H aren't just making it all up.
Moreover, since
gas molecules don't absorb IR across the spectrum but only on molecular lines, cutting off the
radiative heat flow would not be nearly as effective as simply silvering the walls and pulling a vacuum in the void between the walls.
Even for an increase in CO2 by a factor of 10, the temperature increase
does not exceed 2.5 ° K.» Even the IPCC acknowledges
radiative gases» inverse logarithmic influence on temperature.
I don't see anywhere in his CV where he has advanced degrees in
radiative physics that would lend credence to his being a «greenhouse
gas expert.»
Involving the adiabatic lapse rate is an effort to reconcile
radiative physics with the Ideal
Gas Law but taking the effective radiating height as the appropriate «surface»
does not work for reasons that I will discuss in more detail in Parts B and C of this article.
What greenhouse
gases do is reduce the outgoing longwave radiation (at fixed T) and the
radiative forcing is a measure of that net irradiance change, in this case defined at the tropopause.
«An analysis should start with the budget as it is known and explained by
radiative transfer, and perturb the
gases to see what they
do.»
So, I was simply saying that the generally - accepted projections for AGW are that positive feedbacks amplify the
radiative effects due to greenhouse
gases alone but
do not lead to an actual «runaway» instability.
You had to elaborate your answer by saying that
gases with non polar molecule symmetry
do not absorb or emit energy within the temperature parameters with any application in engineering, e.g. O2, N2, H2..., while
gases with polar molecule symmetries are significant absorbers and emitters of
radiative energy, e.g. H2O, CO2, SO3... for engineering applications, depending of their density, temperature and pressure in a given environment.
[Fifth, the short purple line is with
radiative forcing (i.e greenhouse
gas concentrations) frozen at 2000 levels, which, of course, didn't happen.]
Assuming the simulated variability and model response to
radiative forcing are realistic, the results of the present study demonstrate that the combination of greenhouse
gas forcing, sulfate aerosols, and internal variability could have produced the early 20th century warming, although to
do so would take an unusually large realization of internal variability.