From Eric: Since your doctorate is in historical theology, I'd like to hear your take on the shape the debate
about women in the church has taken throughout history.
And for those who feel bogged down by the seemingly endless debates
about women in the Church, it offers a fresh, grace - filled take on what the Bible really says about women.
which so often permeates discussions
about women in the church and in the world, particularly for people of faith.
Terry, I really think it is of no use sharing any topic with
you about women in Church.
I don't necessarily ascribe to the belief that God «wrote the Bible,» and I do believe, as I think you illustrated in a post
about women in church leadership, that much of it was written in a specific time to specific people — therefore, when dealing with the Old Testament, we have to keep in mind the times in which it was written and by whom.
On the blog, we often talk
about women in the Church, but obviously, religious views on gender affect both women and men.
As a professor at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, McKnight tried to avoid entering debates
about women in church ministry.
Not exact matches
But fired up as I was
about porn culture and sexual violence, and questioning attitudes towards
women in the
Church, I felt bombarded by messages
about conservative «biblical womanhood» that I couldn't identify with and that didn't seem to do anything to challenge the injustice I saw.
Ongoing debates
about the role of
women in society and the
Church show that Christianity and feminism have always been uneasy bedfellows.
This is all
about control with religion and it has to stop.Gay people getting married doesn't have anything to do with straight people getting married.People are so full of hatred and disrespect it isn't funny.I'm glad this has come out now, because it really shows how evil people really are.But these people who are so into GOD, the Bible,
Church, and the only way of life they live 4 god, by god are the 1s who prmote going around the world starting WARS, killing innocent
women, men, children and families because Jesus guides them
in everything they do.That is a crock of B.S. if I ever heard it.They will continus to use GOD and continue their EVIL ways to get whatever they want and CONTROL who ever they can.
The question of
women's ordination is regarded as
church - dividing, at least from the Orthodox angle... Consequently I think we on the Lutheran side have to think
about whether progress
in dialogue is to be expected at all.»
This
woman is 100 % right
about the hypocrisy of the
church, and the fact that birth control and condoms actually support life
in healthy sustainable ways.
If it wasn't for
women who were defying the
Church (
in fact, just
about all of them), there would be NO ONE
in the
churches, because
women are the ones who bring
in their families.
Yet «faithful Catholics» do
in fact disagree
about church teaching regarding contraception, the ordination of
women, and the nature of the papacy, among other things.
In the third group, women went to church about 10 times more a year than men in 197
In the third group,
women went to
church about 10 times more a year than men
in 197
in 1972.
GET THE ORIGINAL OR PRINT OF THIS CARTOON Since we're on a roll
about the role of
women in the
church and
in ministry, I thought I'd post this other old favorite.
What is less clear to me is why complementarians like Keller insist that that 1 Timothy 2:12 is a part of biblical womanhood, but Acts 2 is not; why the presence of twelve male disciples implies restrictions on female leadership, but the presence of the apostle Junia is inconsequential; why the Greco - Roman household codes represent God's ideal familial structure for husbands and wives, but not for slaves and masters; why the apostle Paul's instructions to Timothy
about Ephesian
women teaching
in the
church are universally applicable, but his instructions to Corinthian
women regarding head coverings are culturally conditioned (even though Paul uses the same line of argumentation — appealing the creation narrative — to support both); why the poetry of Proverbs 31 is often applied prescriptively and other poetry is not; why Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob represent the supremecy of male leadership while Deborah and Huldah and Miriam are mere exceptions to the rule; why «wives submit to your husbands» carries more weight than «submit one to another»; why the laws of the Old Testament are treated as irrelevant
in one moment, but important enough to display
in public courthouses and schools the next; why a feminist reading of the text represents a capitulation to culture but a reading that turns an ancient Near Eastern text into an apologetic for the post-Industrial Revolution nuclear family is not; why the curse of Genesis 3 has the final word on gender relationships rather than the new creation that began at the resurrection.
But — nobody
in that
church leadership group said anything at all after the comment
about men being more reasonable than
women and
women being emotional and not rational.»
When I went to my pastor
in search of pastoral care, he told me
about my ex pursuing other
women in the
church.
I once spoke with a young
woman who was raised
in a very liberal mainline tradition who told me she left the
church because, «I wasn't learning anything there
about tolerance, love, and good stewardship of the planet that I wasn't learning at my public high school, so what was the point?»
I probably don't say this enough, but I am extremely hopeful
about the future of
women in the
Church.
In Jesus Feminist, Bessey shares her spiritual journey, which ranged from growing up in a post-gender-debate home to learning about the worldwide struggles of women and the obstacles even a well - meaning church can pos
In Jesus Feminist, Bessey shares her spiritual journey, which ranged from growing up
in a post-gender-debate home to learning about the worldwide struggles of women and the obstacles even a well - meaning church can pos
in a post-gender-debate home to learning
about the worldwide struggles of
women and the obstacles even a well - meaning
church can pose.
Jesus Feminist summons the
Church to join
in a conversation
about women in God's Kingdom.
«This research is fascinating, and it has led me to wonder
about its application to
women in the
church.
It is easy to dismiss the
women of Holy Week, to say their presence at critical moments
in the Easter story is inconsequential, holding no significance
in modern - day conversations
about gender equity
in the
Church.
Like the part
about women - blaming and shaming combined with the pastor digging up offenses from the past, referencing an emotional distance he feels from us as we leave, citing his own pastoral involvement and authority
in the decisions of our lives up to this point, threatening to talk to the pastor of the
church we're visiting to share his «concerns,» and suggesting that I'm just a weak mess of emotions and that's why I can't handle the life - sucking horror that has become sundays at this
church.
I suspected I'd get a little pushback from fellow Christians who hold a complementarian perspective on gender, (a position that requires
women to submit to male leadership
in the home and
church, and often appeals to «biblical womanhood» for support), but I had hoped — perhaps naively — that the book would generate a vigorous, healthy debate
about things like the Greco Roman household codes found
in the epistles of Peter and Paul,
about the meaning of the Hebrew word ezer or the Greek word for deacon,
about the Paul's line of argumentation
in 1 Timothy 2 and 1 Corinthians 11,
about our hermeneutical presuppositions and how they are influenced by our own culture, and
about what we really mean when we talk
about «biblical womanhood» — all issues I address quite seriously
in the book, but which have yet to be engaged by complementarian critics.
This person had no idea how much hell I've taken from people
in my evangelical community for writing
about my doubts, my questions related to heaven and hell, my views on biblical interpretation and theology, and my support for
women in ministry and other marginalized people
in the
Church.
And it is a dismissive, hurtful way to speak
about women, who Piper seems to have forgotten were also created
in the image of God, were appointed by God as leaders at critical times
in the history of Israel and the
Church, and were the first to whom Jesus appeared when he inaugurated his new Kingdom on Resurrection Day.
In church I used to think many things favoured
women — songs like «my lovers breath is sweet as wine» when singing
about Jesus that I found repulsive.
Indeed, those who belong to the same religious group can be fierce
in their disagreements, even though they have a great deal
in common, as has been shown by the recent arguments
in the
churches about whether
women should be ordained.
The teaching that men are to be the «spiritual leaders» of their homes is found nowhere
in Scripture, and yet I — along with far too many young evangelical women — spent hours upon hours fretting over this in college, worrying I'd never find a guy who was more knowledgeable about the Bible than I, who was always more emotionally connected to God than I, who was better at leading in the church than I, and who consistently exhibited more faithfulness and wisdom than I. (In fact, under this paradigm, I came to see many of my gifts as liabilities, impediments to settling down with a good «spiritual leader»
in Scripture, and yet I — along with far too many young evangelical
women — spent hours upon hours fretting over this
in college, worrying I'd never find a guy who was more knowledgeable about the Bible than I, who was always more emotionally connected to God than I, who was better at leading in the church than I, and who consistently exhibited more faithfulness and wisdom than I. (In fact, under this paradigm, I came to see many of my gifts as liabilities, impediments to settling down with a good «spiritual leader»
in college, worrying I'd never find a guy who was more knowledgeable
about the Bible than I, who was always more emotionally connected to God than I, who was better at leading
in the church than I, and who consistently exhibited more faithfulness and wisdom than I. (In fact, under this paradigm, I came to see many of my gifts as liabilities, impediments to settling down with a good «spiritual leader»
in the
church than I, and who consistently exhibited more faithfulness and wisdom than I. (
In fact, under this paradigm, I came to see many of my gifts as liabilities, impediments to settling down with a good «spiritual leader»
In fact, under this paradigm, I came to see many of my gifts as liabilities, impediments to settling down with a good «spiritual leader»!)
I'll start: I feel most at home
in a
church that 1) takes its mission to care for the poor and marginalized seriously, 2) does not make assumptions
about its congregation's political positions nor emphasizes political action to begin with, 3) speaks of Scripture
in terms of its ability to «equip us for every good work,» 4) embraces diversity (theologically, ethnically, etc.) and allows
women to assume leadership positions.
Such has been the case
in recent discussions
about the role of
women in the
church and the family.
I certainly appreciate your confidence
in me, but here's the thing: There's a double - standard out there
in which a
woman's critique of patriarchy tends to get discounted as nothing more than the rants of an «angry feminist,» and, truth be told, I've grown a bit weary of hearing that charge each time I speak out
about this disturbing trend
in the evangelical
church.
It was by way of engaging with a
woman taking a «feminist approach» (her words) to the abuse of
women in the
church using the rape of Tamar and the narrative
about Lot asking those that wanted to rape the men to have the
women instead as proof texts.
A
woman who is held back, minimized, or downplayed is not walking
in the fullness God intended for her as an image bearer (for instance, take a look at Carolyn Custis James» excellent discussion
about being an «ezer kenegdo»
in her book, «Half the
Church.»)
(Note: I realize that inequity
in the
Church extends to many groups besides
women, and that's important to talk
about as well, but for efficiency and clarity, next week's focus will be on
women in the
Church.
After a number of pastoral contacts of this type, he received a phone call from Mrs. L. saying that she would like to talk with him
about a problem connected with the
women's group
in the
church.
It was fairly easy - and rather fun - to ridicule these last, and I had a very enjoyable time
in the 1990s when a group called the «Catholic
Women's Network» fell for a spoof which I wrote
about a group of well - to - do ladies sitting round a swimming pool with wine and salads bemoaning their lot and denouncing the
Church's teachingson marriage and sexual morality.
(One young
woman from a mainline
church put it this way: «I wasn't learning anything
about justice or creation care
in church that I wasn't learning
in school.
The
Church,
in speaking
about women, still has lots more to say.
The blogosphere is buzzing once again
about the topic of
women's roles
in the
church, home, and society.
And the
Church in the 20th century hadn't always got its language and style right: Casti Connubii
in the 1930s says wise and true things
about marriage and family life, but didn't somehow quite manage to tackle the emerging questions being raised by
women as educational opportunities for them expanded and new responsibilities cametheir way
in public, commercial, and professional life.
She speaks and writes
about a wide range of topics — from the pro-life movement, to
women in the
church, to movies and pop culture, to religious philosophy and faith.
People make a lot of assumptions
about women pastors — that they have to be aggressively ambitious, that they can only survive
in a liberal and urban environment, that they can't serve
in Reformed
churches, that they must devote all their work and writing to defending their call.
What if one day we come to regard biblical teachings
about homosexuality the same way we regard teachings
about slavery, or dietary laws, or
women covering their heads
in church?
My hope and prayer is that by having and sharing these conversations, men and
women in leadership will realize that the 25 - plus singles are truly a neglected demographic within the
Church — and then do something
about it.
Their stories often suggest the appalling extent to which the
church tends not simply to ignore sexual, physical, emotional and spiritual violence against
women and children as a major crisis, but actually to provide theological justification for this violence
in its teachings
about male headship,
women's subordination, and the sinful character of sexuality.
For our purposes, the most satisfactory definition would be: Christianity is the total life of the community of men and
women who respond to what they know
about God — along with their neighbors, who are caught up into the social movement or process we call «the
church» (however this may be understood)--
in terms of the socially remembered event of Jesus Christ.