What if the reason
the church does things they way they do is to engage less mature Christians or non-Christians so that they are drawn in to hear the Gospel and be transformed by it?
Not exact matches
Unfortunately, they usually get overrided by
church bullies who demand that
things be
done the
way they want them.
If you pointed at individual
church congregations, that would be one
thing, but to paint, as you
do, most of the
church that
way is dishonest.
In the same
way, African American friends have said that the fact that the Black
church survived or that Native Americans still love Jesus is one of the greatest signs that God is at work in the world that we can ever imagine, considering the hideous, terrible
things that we have
done in His name.
I
do not want to be a
church hopper, that's sometimes an excuse «
things aren't going my
way».
Have you ever wondered why your
church does certain
things a certain
way, while the
church across town
does everything so different?
In addition, if / when the
church is presented as a / the
way to help people with their problems, what happens when people don't get helped, and / or feel like
things should have changed in their lives but didn't?
When God
does show up in the
ways these small
churches expect, we'll know it is definitely God, for they can not accomplish these
things by their own power.
Going to
church, having nice social values and
doing nice community work — how many people are calling themselves Christian because they want these
things and «praying the prayer» seems to be the
way to get them?
And that's not a dodge, it basically means that most of these people don't feel welcome in
church, they don't feel like God loves them, so before we even talk about those
things — which by the
way, the
church hierarchy and LGBT Catholics are
way far apart on — we have to talk about the basics: i.e. God loves them; God created them this
way; etc..
There is a new
church plant in town that
does things in a
way I've never seen, and so attracts people who would never worship God together.
Doing these two
things would probably change the
way most of us
do church, and for the better.
And the
Church in the 20th century hadn't always got its language and style right: Casti Connubii in the 1930s says wise and true
things about marriage and family life, but didn't somehow quite manage to tackle the emerging questions being raised by women as educational opportunities for them expanded and new responsibilities cametheir
way in public, commercial, and professional life.
It's an extraordinary
thing that Fuller has 100 denominations and 70 countries represented in its student body, so it's certainly the case that, being the president, you're trying to affect the
church and serve the
church in whatever
ways Fuller can best
do that in the U.S. and around the world.
«Some people think the
church doesn't need changing; they're fine with the
way things are because it works for them.
As a result, even our pastor is starting to realize that what started out as «a class» to have a beginning and ending point, is now a body of believers who don't want to leave the gathering, but to continue growning in a much more comfortable, meaningful setting than they have been used to in the
church - building - lecture - learned
way of
doing things.
There are two wonderful
things that give me a positive wow factor every day — the increasing number of people I discover
doing fantastically brilliant stuff, quietly and without fuss, living out the Gospel of Christ in gentle, caring, loving
ways, most of which the
church institution hasn't got a clue about because it's too dam busy running itself.
So when
things don't go to plan, as Loretta says, «We the
Church should be showing people how to deal with life when
things don't go the
way we expect.»
At the other extreme are those who advocate for saying the sinner's prayer, subscribing to a long list of beliefs / interpretations of Scripture, living certain
ways and
doing certain
things (such as attending
church so many times a week).
(And I believe that this is a great failing of many people who say they have faith, but only go to
church because they were «brought up that
way» or «it is the right
thing to
do.»
Their DEMANDS to be married in
churches that don't see
things «your»
way?
The truth is that people are leaving the
church because they
do care about such
things, and they feel that in many
ways, the
church is just getting in the
way.
The first
thing they
did whenever they wished to stop at a particular place, was to erect a tabernacle or temple to their false god for the duration of the time they expected to stay there, and they built this temple in the middle of the site on which they had established themselves, the ark being placed upon an altar such as is used in a
church, for the idol wished to imitate our religion in many
ways, as we shall afterwards show.10
Imagine if people like Michelle Bachman, Kent Hovind, or Pat Robertson had their
way, and there was no such
thing as separation of
church from state to hold them back from brainwashing our children, persecuting non-believers like they
did in medieval times, and turning our country into a Christian oligarchy.
You left the institution called
church, and gave up the money and the status and the institutional
way of
doing things, but you are still dedicating yourself to the service of truth and love.
Why
do you talk about only what he didn't menage to
do, or what was wrong in his pontificate?Yes, I agree there were many
things that could have been resolved in better
way, but he was only a human and as everybody could make mistakes.To me what is important in his pontificate is that he was a first pope who «opened «the
church to people, who travelled a lot, met with people, went to synagogue,
did much to abolish communism.Sure, he wasn't ideal, but for me the best pope so far.
For many people, the
way they «
do church» is the only right
way to
do it, and anybody who
does things differently is
doing it wrong.
I lost count of how many «revivals» I sat through, listening to all of the
ways that the Canadian
church was failing, the
ways that Canada was going to hell in a hand - basket, the litany of how we
did it wrong, and God had called them here to show us how to
do this faith
thing the right
way and, then, «we would see a move of God like nothing ever seen before, bless God!»
Take them one at a time, spending as much time as you need to discuss thoroughly the issues and feelings that arise: «The ideas and issues which excite me most are...;» «The
things that are most worth living for right now are...;» «I feel the most joy (pain, hope, lonely, together) when...;» «What I really believe about God is...;» «I feel closest to (most distant from) God when...;» «I get spiritually high when...;» «The beliefs that mean the most to me now are...;» «The beliefs from my childhood which no longer make sense are...;» «Life has the least (the most) meaning for me when...;» «I feel closest to you (most distant from you) spiritually when...;» «The
way I really feel about the
church is...;» «I'd like to
do the following, to enjoy more spiritual sharing...;» «To enrich the spiritual life of our family, I'd like to..
As frustrating as it is to experience this sort of patriarchy within the
Church, we can take courage knowing that it doesn't have to be this
way, that
things can and will change.
Even though I explained that many
churches do not believe that
way, the next time we talked he told us he had «chucked the religion
thing.»
Everybody wants
church to
do things their
way.
If we are truly mature our concern should not be forcing the
church to
do things our
way, it should be supporting whatever
way best advances the Gospel.
The
Church does a lot of
things well in the world today, but there are also a lot of
ways that the
Church has adopted roles and characteristics that may be detrimental to our overall mission.
Another preacher preaching what ever goes is ok with Christianity... If your going to preach Christianity based on the Bible, then you might as well forget gay marriages are ok... If you want to twist it around then thats up to you... Paul said, «The Berens were of noble charachter because they didn't believe what they heard, but they took what they heard and confirmed it with the Bible... So its like the Yen or Yang... Its either Gods
church or Satans Church... Can't be any other way... Do I hate gays, no... I have some very close friends that I have had for over 30 years that are gay, but I think they will be accountable for their life styles... Thats the thing about Christianity, we are held accountable, its not an everything goes belief... Its rules we have to follow... And rules we will be held accountable... So maybe this preacher needs to start a dfferent faith or religion... One where there are no rules and where its people are not accountable for their acti
church or Satans
Church... Can't be any other way... Do I hate gays, no... I have some very close friends that I have had for over 30 years that are gay, but I think they will be accountable for their life styles... Thats the thing about Christianity, we are held accountable, its not an everything goes belief... Its rules we have to follow... And rules we will be held accountable... So maybe this preacher needs to start a dfferent faith or religion... One where there are no rules and where its people are not accountable for their acti
Church... Can't be any other
way...
Do I hate gays, no... I have some very close friends that I have had for over 30 years that are gay, but I think they will be accountable for their life styles... Thats the
thing about Christianity, we are held accountable, its not an everything goes belief... Its rules we have to follow... And rules we will be held accountable... So maybe this preacher needs to start a dfferent faith or religion... One where there are no rules and where its people are not accountable for their actions...
while breifly going thru this artical it was makeing my stomach turn, this is just what the devil wants is for doubt and confusion, christianity is growing stronger than ever, souls are being saved and lives are changing every day, and
do nt for one minute think any different, or try tp put christians down, why would we loose faith, god answers our prayers everyday, think what you want and
do what you
do, but
do nt try to put
things in other people's opinion or minds, jesus died for our sins, so that we can have better lives and be forgiven for our sins here on earth and move on to a beter place, becouse souls
do nt die «read the bible, if you
do nt understand it, find a
church that can help you learn a better
way of life, I pray for everyone out there that
does nt know jesus christ as ther savior to accept what he has to offer to you «love forgiveness and ever lasting life «Christians» stay strong and [ass the word of god on and share all your tedtimonies in life» god bless everyone»»
If you are looking for
ways to be the
church in your community and love others like Jesus, here are some practical suggestions of
things you can
do.
And I also
do not think that all
churches see those ideas in the same
way or understand them to be the same
things.
Whether it's looking back on an amazing revival or a season of renewal, whether it was a season of growth as a
church or as an individual, we tend to romanticize the
ways God has met us in the past and long for the past until we forget: God is
doing a new
thing.
Tim i found it liberating to just
do what the Lord wants you to
do i work within his boundarys and yes i attend
church and enjoy it.I love the people and i love hearing the word and worshipping the Lord even if others are still bound up with traditions thats not my walk thats theres.My focus is to
do what the Lord wants me to
do.There have been times i have said no to the pastor he
does nt understand why i choose not to lead the worship.i query him as well regarding the idea that its not just performing a function because there is a need our hearts have to be in the right place so that the Lord can use us but he
did nt understand where i was coming from and thats okay because of that i just said no until my heart is right i am better not being involved in leading.But i am happy to be an encouragement to others in the worship team i havent wanted to be the leader i have
done that in the past.So my focus has been just the singing and being part of different worship teams i think the Lord has other plans as the groups i am in seem to be changing at the same time i am aware that i
do nt to worry about change as the Lord knows whats best.I used to be quite comfortable leading the music but that was before when i was operating in my own self confidence and pride.The Lord
did such a huge change in my life that i lost my self confidence and that is not a bad
thing at all as my spiritual growth has been incredible.The big change was my identity moved from me and what i could
do to knowing who i was in Christ and that he is my strength and confidence.Now i know that without him i can
do nothing in fact i am dependent on his empowerment through his holy spirit all the time in everything.In the weekend i was asked to lead the music at another
church i attend multiple
churchs although i attend two regularly one has services in the morning and one has services in the evening so the two
do nt really clash.In the weekend i was asked to lead the music its been two years since i
did that and i was worried on how i would go.All i can say is that it went really well and because i stepped out in Faith the Lord really blessed the morning to the congregation.The difference is knowing that i serve the Lord with the gifts he has given me but my heart has to be right and when i
do it in his
way it builds up the body and it brings glory to him.May the Lord continue to show you what he wants you to
do even though others may not understand your reasons i just want you to know that you
do nt have to pull away completely just work within the boundarys that the Lord gives you and
do nt feel pressured by others expectations to
do anything that feel uncomfortable.Be involved just as you feel lead by the holy spirit even if it is in a very minor
way take small steps.regards brentnz
Christine, as for the
churches not seeing the
things in the same
way, that doesn't matter.
also please study the Christianity of first few centuries... where the state of the head was the head of the
church... what could have been
done where the head of the state
did not find
things on his own
way?
The further claim being made here — that God can ask me, through my conscience, to
do things that
do not cohere with the teaching of the
Church — fractures the bonds between God, the
Church's teaching authority, and conscience in perilous
ways.
Things had been
done this
way for centuries before the
church even existed, and it's an effective tactic for a burgeoning religion.
Kenneth Lasch, founders of Road to Recovery are / were priests who are dissenting Catholics and wish to dismantle the
Church just as any fallen away Catholic might want, just because the
Church isn't
doing things «their
way».
Strange thoughts, fantasies, dreams, slips of the tongue, the jokes we think are funny, the place we sit in
church, the
way we feel when someone is angry, the
things we remember, the people we like or don't like — all make sense when we understand their hidden meaning.
This is the same
thing that the traditional
church structures attempt to
do through a gathered community of believers that meets to celebrate with Word and sacrament the Christian
way of understanding and experiencing life.
Sometimes I felt some pressure from others to be more available for the «daytime ladies activities» because many
churches like to schedule their ladies» Bible studies for Tuesday mornings but overall, I didn't feel much pressure or inclination to change the
way things were for us.
The bottom line is that every organization and institution — whether political, economic, or religious, from large corporations and entire nations to small country
churches and individual households — have a «tenor» or a «
way of
doing things» that define, characterize, guide, and even justify the actions and attitudes of that particular structure.
And this great missionary zeal is evident in his first Apostolic Exhortation, Evangelii Gaudium: «I dream of a «missionary option», that is, a missionary impulse capable of transforming everything, so that the
Church's customs,
ways of
doing things, times and schedules, language and structures can be suitably channelled for the evangelisation of today's world.»