If you're
lucky, there's another person there who has tried it and maybe is even billing flat fees and then you can have maybe a drink with them later and have a productive
conversation but that automatic defensiveness that that's not how we do it, it won't work, is one of the most toxic things that I see and it doesn't mean that you have to adopt everything but I
feel like a willingness to engage with new ideas or even just other ideas is probably the one biggest most important thing that lawyers can do and learn how to test those ideas, bounce them off of people who will listen and engage with them too.