The argument about clouds is even simpler: Clouds affect upward and downward radiation roughly equally, so cloud changes have negligible
effect on atmospheric temperature.
Radiative gases have a critical role in the fluid dynamics of the atmosphere and this has a significant
effect on atmospheric temperature.
tallbloke (12:38:29): RICH (05:57:14): If CO2 had
the effect on atmospheric temperature that is claimed we would see it as an increase throughout the atmosphere.
The 6-fold increase in hydrocarbon use since 1940 has had no noticeable
effect on atmospheric temperature...» (Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide)
The 6-fold increase in hydrocarbon use since 1940 has had no noticeable
effect on atmospheric temperature...» -LRB-
Of course, we argue elsewhere that man - made global warming theory is invalid (see our Start here page for more details), and that carbon dioxide (CO2) increases have
no effect on atmospheric temperatures, let alone ocean temperatures.
This effect is why a lower surface Tmin has less
effect on atmospheric temperatures that static atmosphere AGW calculations would indicate.
My claim is that radiative gases have a very definite
effect on atmospheric temperatures.
JW comment — What is in debate is the process (my words above) has a net
effect on atmospheric temperatures when all other atmospheric conditions and processes are involved.
Nothing Australia does will have any appreciable
effect on atmospheric temperatures that might cause net damage to Australians» welfare (or anyone else's) or on sea levels which might be bad for Australia; 3.
The 6-fold increase in hydrocarbon use and CO2 production since 1940 has had no noticeable
effect on atmospheric temperatures.
I am also sceptical of the statement that clouds have a negligible
effect on atmospheric temperatures.
Not exact matches
The setting gave scientists the rare opportunity to look at the impact of pollution
on atmospheric processes in a largely pre-industrial environment and pinpoint the
effects of the particles apart from other factors such as
temperature and humidity.
Despite its smaller ash cloud, El Chichn emitted more than 40 times the volume of sulfur - rich gases produced by Mt. St. Helens, which revealed that the formation of
atmospheric sulfur aerosols has a more substantial
effect on global
temperatures than simply the volume of ash produced during an eruption.
But even the first step of modeling the
effects of greenhouse gas sources and sinks
on future
temperatures requires input from
atmospheric scientists, oceanographers, ecologists, economists, policy analysts, and others.
Yet there is no doubt that research into
atmospheric aerosols is becoming increasingly important due to the
effects that they can have
on the global
temperature of Earth, given that solar radiation is the main source of energy for Earth - Atmosphere system.
It is well - established in the scientific community that increases in
atmospheric CO2 levels result in global warming, but the magnitude of the
effect may vary depending
on average global
temperature.
Much study has focused
on the
effects these rising carbon dioxide levels could have
on weather patterns and global
temperatures, but could elevated
atmospheric CO2 levels negatively affect the nutritional value of the food we grow?
As the authors point out, even if the whole story comes down to precipitation changes which favor ablation, the persistence of these conditions throughout the 20th century still might be an indirect
effect of global warming, via the remote
effect of sea surface
temperature on atmospheric circulation.
Can you relate that to works like «
Effect of CO2 line width
on 15 μm
atmospheric emission», B. Kivel et al. (1976), which use the emission from CO2 to explore the Troposphere
temperature?
Re 423 Chris G — whether the
effect saturates at a given density depends
on the way the
temperature is distributed; if the
temperature from TOA downward is isothermal for a sufficient thickness, than the
effect could be saturated at TOA (if starting from a large enough optical thickness per unit
atmospheric mass path, a change in the density of the gas / etc that contributes optical thickness would then have little to no
effect on the flux at TOA, which is what is meant by saturation.
In the same tone as the last post regarding
atmospheric contaminants, have to wonder whether an era of widespread constant combustion across the globe, and all the waste heat from that combustion, would have any
effect on the global mean
temperature.
This elegant, self - regulatory,
atmospheric mechanism was soon attacked for being based
on limited data and the inability of other researchers to identify the
effect in other cloud and
temperature data sets.
Considering that the mechanism of the «natural AMO» is so poorly understood, there's no justification for immediately blaming increases in hurricane activity
on it while entirely ignoring global warming
effects on sea surface
temperatures (and
atmospheric moisture), for which very clear mechanisms do exist.
If so, I think we want to include tightly coupled chemical and biological processes, in that case — for example, the chemical fate of
atmospheric methane over time, the
effects of increasing
atmospheric CO2
on oceanic acid - base chemistry, and the response of the biological components of the carbon cycle to increased
temperatures and a changing hydrologic cycle.
Although the elevated concentrations of
atmospheric CO2 that raise
temperature can also raise crop yields, the detrimental
effect of higher
temperatures on yields overrides the CO2 fertilization
effect for the major crops.
Radiatively warmed (whether directly or indirectly through collisions) molecules are placed higher in the
atmospheric column than can be explained just from their individual gas constants and once at that height have an enhanced cooling
effect equal to their enhanced warming
effect with a zero net
effect on surface
temperature.
A facile illustration of the
effects of
atmospheric pressure
on the surface
temperatures of a planet like Earth can be found in the Grand Canyon, Southwestern U.S.. There, the North Rim is about 1,000 feet (305 meters) higher in elevation than the South Rim.
It's truly mind - boggling how a change by a mere few parts per million of trace
atmospheric gases can have such a huge
effect on the surface
temperature.
-- Susan Solomon, Nature The Long Thaw is written for anyone who wishes to know what cutting - edge science tells us about the modern issue of global warming and its
effects on the pathways of
atmospheric chemistry, as well as global and regional
temperatures, rainfall, sea level, Arctic sea - ice coverage, melting of the continental ice sheets, cyclonic storm frequency and intensity and ocean acidification.
So how can we tell what
effect CO2 is having
on temperatures, and if the increase in
atmospheric CO2 is really making the planet warmer?
Unless more CO2 from human sources could increase total
atmospheric density it could not have a significant
effect on global tropospheric
temperature.
So even assuming that reductions of human - induced CO2 emissions would have any
effect on atmospheric CO2 levels, the reductions would not influence global
temperatures according to the Wallace et al., 2016 study.
In fact, the best current studies show that increases in
atmospheric CO2 levels have no significant
effects on global
temperatures and encourage plant growth.
Would a drop in
temperature of the upper atmosphere of say 500 °F have no
effect on surface
temperatures or
atmospheric circulation patterns?
We do not need models to anticipate that significant rises in
atmospheric CO2 concentrations harbor the potential to raise
temperatures significantly (Fourier, 1824, Arrhenius, 1896), nor that the warming will cause more water to evaporate (confirmed by satellite data), nor that the additional water will further warm the climate, nor that this
effect will be partially offset by latent heat release in the troposphere (the «lapse - rate feedback»), nor that greenhouse gas increases will warm the troposphere but cool the stratosphere, while increases in solar intensity will warm both — one can go
on and
on
Even so, Mann said, certain predictions are based
on physics and chemistry that are so fundamental, such as the
atmospheric greenhouse
effect, that the resulting predictions — that surface
temperatures should warm, ice should melt and sea level should rise — are robust no matter the assumptions.
But what if decreases in
atmospheric CO2 levels have no significant
effect on global
temperatures?
More CO2 has no
effect on temperature average, only
on temperature range (day to day, season to season, etc) just like the
effect of
atmospheric water.
These include the
effects that trees have
on local
atmospheric chemistry and potentially the clouds above them; until these are fully understood it is somewhat difficult to attribute a «
temperature benefit» of a specific magnitude to a given afforestation scenario.
In fact, recent research shows that changes in
atmospheric CO2 levels have no significant
effect on global
temperatures.
By examining the spatial pattern of both types of climate variation, the scientists found that the anthropogenic global warming signal was relatively spatially uniform over the tropical oceans and thus would not have a large
effect on the
atmospheric circulation, whereas the PDO shift in the 1990s consisted of warming in the tropical west Pacific and cooling in the subtropical and east tropical Pacific, which would enhance the existing sea surface
temperature difference and thus intensify the circulation.
The big debate about CO2's
effect on global surface - level air
temperatures is what will happen when
atmospheric CO2 doubles in concentration from pre-industrial times, i.e., increases from 0.026 % (280 ppm) of the atmosphere to 0.056 % (560 ppm).
At present levels of
atmospheric CO2 increases to the CO2 have no significant
effect on global
temperature.
So, as the empirical measurements which I cited for you show, at present levels of
atmospheric CO2 increases to the CO2 have no significant
effect on global
temperature.
Climate skeptic scientists have long questioned whether the
effects of relatively minor (compared to other CO2 sources and sinks) human - caused emissions of CO2 have more than a minor
effect on global
temperatures and some have even questioned whether the UN and USEPA have even gotten the causation backwards (i.e., because
on balance global
temperatures affect
atmospheric CO2 levels).
Fourth, a recent study concludes that the basic alarmist hypothesis is scientifically incorrect by showing that increases in
atmospheric CO2 levels have no statistically significant
effect on global
temperatures.
[Shaviv and Veizer, 2003] conclude that the
effect of a doubling of
atmospheric CO2 concentration
on tropical sea surface
temperatures (SST) is likely to be 0.5 ºC (up to 1.9 ºC at 99 % confidence), with global mean
temperature changes about 1.5 times as large.
Non existent greenhouse gas forcing has no
effect on the atmosphere — or anything else for that matter — while actual heat from any source appears to heat the gases of the atmosphere, as evidenced by the fact that the
atmospheric temperature exists.
The basic point and the one relevant to climate change, is still relevant — oceans still have an enormous moderating
effect on temperature over time (though if there is a huge increase or decrease in re radiated
atmospheric heat it is going to then affect the oceans initially).