It would be wrong to think that climate scientists have been ignorant of the non-linear nature of
feedbacks on climate sensitivity.
Energy from warm GHG in the higher layers of the troposphere can escape more easily into space; if the upper troposphere warms more quickly than the surface as greenouse gases increase, this reduces the overall warming for a given increase in GHG, a negative
feedback on climate sensitivity.
Not exact matches
Earlier studies
on the
sensitivity of tropical cyclones to past
climates have only analyzed the effect of changes in the solar radiation from orbital forcing
on the formation of tropical cyclones, without considering the
feedbacks associated to the consequent greening of the Sahara.
The conclusion that limiting CO2 below 450 ppm will prevent warming beyond two degrees C is based
on a conservative definition of
climate sensitivity that considers only the so - called fast
feedbacks in the
climate system, such as changes in clouds, water vapor and melting sea ice.
From the paper...» These results provide enhanced confidence in the range of
climate sensitivity in
climate simulations, which are based
on a positive uppertropospheric water vapor
feedback.
Sure, there might be a few papers that take
climate sensitivity as a given and somehow try to draw conclusions about the impact
on the
climate from that... But, I hardly think that these are swamping the number of papers trying to determine what the
climate sensitivity is, studying if the water vapor
feedback is working as expected, etc., etc..
That's the same value for
climate sensitivity I've seen from the string theory physics site and from knowledgeable
climate sites as well — it's the number people get this way: calculated in the absence of any
feedback,
on the hypothetical twinning of each molecule of CO2 in the atmosphere to make two where there were one, instantly, and having nothing else happen.
A 2008 study led by James Hansen found that
climate sensitivity to «fast
feedback processes» is 3 °C, but when accounting for longer - term
feedbacks (such as ice sheet disintegration, vegetation migration, and greenhouse gas release from soils, tundra or ocean), if atmospheric CO2 remains at the doubled level, the
sensitivity increases to 6 °C based
on paleoclimatic (historical
climate) data.
All this discussion of the Schmittner et al paper should not distract from the point that Hansen and others (including RichardC in # 40 and William P in # 24) try to make: that there seems to be a significant risk that
climate sensitivity could be
on the higher end of the various ranges, especially if we include the slower
feedbacks and take into account that these could kick in faster than generally assumed.
So the reference system
climate sensitivity parameter is based
on a negative
feedback due to Stefan's law.
Webb, M.J., et al., 2006:
On the contribution of local
feedback mechanisms to the range of
climate sensitivity in two GCM ensembles.
At its present temperature Earth is
on a flat portion of its fast -
feedback climate sensitivity curve.
The goal of the paper under review, as I take it, is an attempt to put an upper bound
on the Charney
climate sensitivity feedback by considering the LCM paleoclimate.
New paper mixing «
climate feedback parameter» with
climate sensitivity... «
climate feedback parameter was estimated to 5.5 ± 0.6 W m − 2 K − 1» «Another issue to be considered in future work should be that the large value of the
climate feedback parameter according to this work disagrees with much of the literature
on climate sensitivity (Knutti and Hegerl, 2008; Randall et al., 2007; Huber et al., 2011).
The regional
climate feedbacks formulation reveals fundamental biases in a widely - used method for diagnosing
climate sensitivity,
feedbacks and radiative forcing — the regression of the global top - of - atmosphere radiation flux
on global surface temperature.
They find a
climate feedback parameter of 2.3 ± 1.4 W m — 2 °C — 1, which corresponds to a 5 to 95 % ECS range of 1.0 °C to 4.1 °C if using a prior distribution that puts more emphasis
on lower
sensitivities as discussed above, and a wider range if the prior distribution is reformulated so that it is uniform in
sensitivity (Table 9.3).
Although the strength of this
feedback varies somewhat among models, its overall impact
on the spread of model
climate sensitivities is reduced by lapse rate
feedback, which tends to be anti-correlated.
Then
on page 9.5 we read «There is very high confidence that the primary factor contributing to the spread in equilibrium
climate sensitivity continues to be the cloud
feedback.
We'll also dig into some of his peer reviewed work, notably the recent paper by Spencer and Braswell
on climate sensitivity, and his paper
on tropical clouds which is widely misquoted as supporting Lindzen's IRIS conjecture regarding stabilizing cloud
feedback.
Because high latitudes are thought to be most sensitive to greenhouse gas forcing owing to, for example, ice - albedo
feedbacks, we focus
on the tropical Pacific Ocean to derive a minimum value for long - term
climate sensitivity.
It is my understanding that the uncertainties regarding
climate sensitivity to a nominal 2XCO2 forcing is primarily a function of the uncertainties in (1) future atmospheric aerosol concentrations; both sulfate - type (cooling) and black carbon - type (warming), (2)
feedbacks associated with aerosol effects
on the properties of clouds (e.g. will cloud droplets become more reflective?)
Including a temperature
feedback on would change the
climate sensitivity, but doesn't much change the impact of a small offset in.
I am thinking that the permafrost
feedback article we were discussing was refering to a non-runaway
feedback, but rather a delayed
feedback, which is otherwise just like the fast
feedbacks except that it's slow response would make clear that it does
feedback on itself according to the
climate sensitivity from all other
feedbacks (it drives itself, via
climate change, to go farther, but it approaches a limit asymptotically).
What about the
feedbacks that are not normally well represented by ECS and normally fall into the Earth System
Climate Sensitivity, stuff like the Arctic Ice cover, which now has trends over decades closer to what was seen
on centuries in paleoclimate:
(but quickly:
On the point of paleoclimatic evidence: if there is a threshold below (or above) which a feedback is not activitated, then climate variations staying below (or above) that threshold would not bear on the sensitivity with that feedback
On the point of paleoclimatic evidence: if there is a threshold below (or above) which a
feedback is not activitated, then
climate variations staying below (or above) that threshold would not bear
on the sensitivity with that feedback
on the
sensitivity with that
feedback.)
Just to follow - up
on John Finn's question (# 10), if one puts in a rough value for the emissivity of the earth (whatever that might be), so one is no longer assuming it is a perfect blackbody, then does the resulting estimate for
climate sensitivity correspond to what one would expect in the absence of any
feedback effects?
Aslo, regarding
climate sensitivity a very key thing to remember, especially if
sensitivity turns out to be
on the high side, is that the «final» equilibrium temperature (Alexi's concerns about there being such a thing aside) calculated from
climate sensitivity does not take into account carbon cycle
feedbacks OR ice sheet changes.
David Benson, Based solely
on the fact that Earth was 33 degrees warmer than its blackbody temperature,
on what was known of the absorption spectrum of CO2 and
on the fact that Earth's
climate did not exhibit exceptional stability characteristic of systems with negative
feedback, I'd probably still go with restricting CO2
sensitivity to 0 to + infinity.
This is enough to matter, but it's no more scary than the uncertainty in cloud
feedbacks for example, and whether they could put us
on the high end of typical
climate sensitivity estimates.
SM, what I am saying is that if you had negative
sensitivity, that would imply strong negative
feedback, and you wouldn't see much change in the
climate system — in contrast to the
climate we see
on Earth.
And once we're
on that positive
feedback track for good, it's just a matter of time (which
climate sensitivity can help us understand, but only in part) before it gets really really bad.
This paper is nonetheless interesting for the link that they make to the carbon cycle and the potential for
feedbacks that may amplify the CO2 concentration in the future that will depend
on the warming, and hence
on climate sensitivity.
On the real planet, there are multitudes of
feedbacks that affect other greenhouse components (ice alebdo, water vapour, clouds etc.) and so the true issue for
climate sensitivity is what these
feedbacks amount to.
Depending
on meridional heat transport, when freezing temperatures reach deep enough towards low - latitudes, the ice - albedo
feedback can become so effective that
climate sensitivity becomes infinite and even negative (implying unstable equilibrium for any «ice - line» (latitude marking the edge of ice) between the equator and some other latitude).
part of the utility is that Charney
sensitivity, using only relatively rapid
feedbacks, describes the
climate response to an externally imposed forcing change
on a particular timescale related to the heat capacity of the system (if the
feedbacks were sufficiniently rapid and the heat capacity independent of time scale (it's not largely because of oceanic circulation), an imbalance would exponentially decay
on the time scale of heat capacity * Charney equilibrium
climate sensitivity.
Our session
on climate sensitivity and
feedbacks has really great contributions, both talks and posters.
Dear RC, Is it not possible that scientists and mathematicians from the science of non linear dynamics (which maths I am presuming is being used in the maths of
climate models) to shed light
on the amplification and dampening of the
climates feedback cycles and hence the so called «
sensitivity» issue and hence the possible range of temperatures?
The figure for
climate sensitivity to doubling of CO2 of 3.6 to 8.1 degrees Fahrenheit depends
on water vapor being a large positive
feedback.
And then there's the even higher Earth System
Climate Sensitivity based
on slower
feedbacks, hovering around 6 °C / doubling, for a rise of 24 °C with four doublings.
In short, whatever the initial
climate sensitivity is to a doubling of CO2, I just can't buy off
on this positive
feedback loop idea that says that temperatures are going to spin out of control once we pass over some «tipping point» that only seems to exists in some scientist's theoretical model.
The precise amount of warming will depend
on climate sensitivity and the exotic
feedbacks that are factored in, but I think you are dancing
on the head of a pin with your comments -
This «
climate sensitivity» not only depends
on the direct effect of the GHGs themselves, but also
on natural «
climate feedback» mechanisms, particularly those due to clouds, water vapour, and snow cover.
Explore the
sensitivity of the
climate system to atmospheric chemical composition with emphasis
on connections to biosphereic processes and
feedbacks
Based
on evidence from Earth's history, we suggest here that the relevant form of
climate sensitivity in the Anthropocene (e.g. from which to base future greenhouse gas (GHG) stabilization targets) is the Earth system
sensitivity including fast
feedbacks from changes in water vapour, natural aerosols, clouds and sea ice, slower surface albedo
feedbacks from changes in continental ice sheets and vegetation, and
climate — GHG
feedbacks from changes in natural (land and ocean) carbon sinks.
Based
on the principles of radiative physics and reasonable estimates of
feedbacks and
climate sensitivity, I would say that any current oscillations beyond those we already know can't be strong so strong that they leave little or no room for what anthropogenic emissions are contributing to the temperature trend.
With a
climate sensitivity of roughly 1 from «settled» CO2 science, some evidence for natural shifts in global
climate of 0.5 - 1.0 degK, and a fair amount of uncertainty in
feedbacks, my Italian flag (based
on physics) will probably be mostly white if
climate sensitivity is > 2.5.
[¶]... Basing our assessment
on a combination of several independent lines of evidence, as summarised in Box 10.2 Figures 1 and 2, including observed
climate change and the strength of known
feedbacks simulated in GCMs, we conclude that the global mean equilibrium warming for doubling CO2, or «equilibrium
climate sensitivity», is likely to lie in the range 2 °C to 4.5 °C, with a most likely value of about 3 °C.
The Figure 9.20
climate sensitivity PDF that is effectively based
on a uniform prior in the
climate feedback parameter Y is that for Gregory 02.
For a method for that, may I encourage you to look at Roy Spencer's recent model
on thermal diffusion in the ocean: More Evidence that Global Warming is a False Alarm: A Model Simulation of the last 40 Years of Deep Ocean Warming June 25th, 2011 See especially his Figure Forcing
Feedback Diffusion Model Explains Weak Warming in 0 - 700 m layer as Consistent with Low
Climate Sensitivity His model appears to be more accurate than the IPCC's.
The closed - loop
feedback gain implicit in the IPCC's
climate -
sensitivity interval 3.3 [2.0, 4.5] Cº per CO2 doubling falls
on the interval 0.62 [0.42, 0.74].