Separating Forced
from Chaotic Climate Variability over the Past Millennium.
Separating Forced
from Chaotic Climate Variability over the Past Millennium.
Not exact matches
Jochem Marotzke and Piers M. Forster have now explained the warming pause in terms of random fluctuations arising
from chaotic processes in the
climate system.
You rightly respond to my weakest point: Having emerged
from a
chaotic and harsh environment, mankind surely sees no need to descend back into such a quagmire, given the hope that s / he can (even partially) control
climate outcomes.
Human influences on the
climate (largely the accumulation of CO2
from fossil fuel combustion) are a physically small (1 %) effect on a complex,
chaotic, multicomponent and multiscale system.
Climate is different
from weather, it is more predictable while weather is
chaotic.]
You rightly respond to my weakest point: Having emerged
from a
chaotic and harsh environment, mankind surely sees no need to descend back into such a quagmire, given the hope that s / he can (even partially) control
climate outcomes.
On Friday, Todd Stern, the lead United States negotiator in
climate talks, prodded China sharply in a speech at the University of Michigan Law School, criticizing its negotiators for backtracking
from commitments that he said were clear cut under the Copenhagen Accord that emerged
from the
chaotic talks last December.
Severe
climate changes during the last ice - age could have been caused by random
chaotic variations on Earth and not governed by external periodic influences
from the Sun.
The existence of D - O cycles appear to demonstrate that the
climate is sometimes in a «base state»
from which it will be
chaotic (unless D - O cycles are actually rather more deterministic than generally thought).
Any state of the art
climate model (CGCM) under stationary forcing (plus annual cycle) will eventually demonstrate some sort of
chaotic behavior and / or will drift away
from the realistic description of the actual atmosphere.
Since these processes, radiation and conduction, are not
chaotic, where would chaos come
from in
climate?
I still do not correctly understand how the calculation of CO2 sensitivity in past or present
climates can be independant
from the estimation of the other forcings related to temperature trends (and
from natural /
chaotic variability).
3 or 4 researchers in the 19th century extrapolating
from gas in a flask on a lab bench to a
chaotic, coupled planetary ocean atmosphere
climate system?.
«Ben Santer [federal climatologist] just published a pal - reviewed paper in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science loudly proclaiming that the dreaded man - made global warming signal has emerged
from our naturally
chaotic climate... pretty much what he wrote in Naturefor the UN's 1996 edition of this conference, 16 years ago.
«In particular, it is not obvious, as of today, whether it is more efficient to approach the problem of constructing a theory of
climate dynamics starting
from the framework of hamiltonian mechanics and quasi-equilibrium statistical mechanics or taking the point of view of dissipative
chaotic dynamical systems, and of non-equilibrium statistical mechanics, and even the authors of this review disagree.
Using error - propagation the way it is done here shows precisely the same mistake that seems to appear in a lot of
climate models, a false assumption of linearity, starting
from some conditions in a system that is physically strongly non-linear and numerically
chaotic.
-- such a model would quickly depart
from the unfolding
climate found on Earth because
chaotic systems defy prediction.
I take it
from your post that you strongly believe the earth
climate is a spatio temporal
chaotic system?
Intuitively, the models seem to be running hot because (a) their
climate response rate to doubling of CO2 is too high and (b) they do not adequately allow for negative feedbacks
from clouds, among other influences which must remain beyond the realm of prediction due to their
chaotic nature.
Actually supposing the
climate is somehow
chaotic one perhaps shouldn't expect a good fit
from time - series models driven by gaussian noise.
In 2007 Dr. Anastasios A. Tsonis et al. approached the complexity of the
climate system
from the position that it is
chaotic and proposed a whole new theory to explain
climate shifts.
The intensity of our desire to find the driver of earth's weather and
climate seems to pull us away
from appreciating dynamic or
chaotic systems and disenables us
from the pleasure of understanding fundamental conditions.
We're overdue for a few paragraphs on
chaotic climate from Ellison and mebbe time for BBD to spin the dial and pick out another talking point
from Skeptical Science to cut & paste or is Science of Doom's turn?
A very comprehensive demolition of the alarmist conclusions drawn
from very inadequate modelling of what is a
chaotic and still poorly understood Earth
climate system.
Chaotic influences
from oceans and volcanoes etc. makes both weather more unpredictable and creates the unpredictable part of the «wiggles» around the average trend in
climate.
So in a dissipative -
chaotic system like
climate, it is not surprising that the time wavetrain of
climate status looked at
from numerous metrics, will show emergent periodic structure and complexity.
The difference between an aggressive stance on
climate change and a slower path could mean the difference between an orderly approach to sea level rise and a
chaotic retreat
from the coasts.
You are just as clueless as Bob Tisdale about
climate modeling, and about the
chaotic character of the atmosphere - ocean dynamics and about the implications for
climate modeling
from the
chaotic character of the atmosphere - ocean dynamics.
In fact, when viewing the future projections
from the CMIP5 model, one sees the exact same pattern as above - a monotonous upward saw - tooth pattern of small ups and downs, completely unlike the
chaotic conditions of real - world
climate that is produced by all the conflicting natural feedback forces.
Nature provides only one single realization of many possible realizations of temperature variability over time
from a whole distribution of possible realizations of a
chaotic system for the given
climate conditions, whereas the ensemble mean of models is an average over many of the possible realizations (117 model simulations in this case).
Proof can be easily found in various «discussions» about «
chaotic» versus «predictable»
climate, e.g.: http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=228 http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=204 http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=193 With exception of weak opposing voices like «Sashka» and Prof. Pielke, most participants have really little to no idea about the subject, starting
from topic originators.