I really want to know if ALL observations can be FULLY accounted for by
internal system variability with NO influence from above via solar variability.
If
internal system variability on it's own were sufficient as you seem to believe then the mechanisms and quantities involved would already have been substantially resolved with sound predictive abilities already arising from our models.
As I will show later on virtually all climate variability is a result of
internal system variability and additionally the system not only sets up a large amount of variability internally but also provides mechanisms to limit and then reduce that internal variability.
Stephen Wilde (01:07:00): the observations do differ from what we would expect from
internal system variability on it's own.
The current models neither recognise the presence of
that internal system variability nor the processes that ultimately stabilise it.
If
internal system variability were the sole driving force then the higher levels of the atmosphere would generally follow the temperature trend of the lower levels.
Thus the simplest explanation is
internal system variability in the rate of upward transmission of energy between the layers.
Namely whether or not the AO is entirely driven by
internal system variability or whether there is some solar influence.
You wrote, «The current models neither recognise the presence of
that internal system variability nor the processes that ultimately stabilise it.»
In view of your statement «As I will show later on virtually all climate variability is a result of
internal system variability» I'm puzzled by your resistance to accepting the very same things, when I say it.
If however you could make a positive suggestion as to alternative mechanism to account for observations then that would be welcome but I hold out no hope of that because you don't even accept that the observations do differ from what we would expect from
internal system variability on it's own.
As they stand at present the models assume a generally static global energy budget with relatively little
internal system variability so that measurable changes in the various input and output components can only occur from external forcing agents such as changes in the CO2 content of the air caused by human emissions or perhaps temporary after effects from volcanic eruptions, meteorite strikes or significant changes in solar power output.
I appreciate the time you have put into that but I don't think 1860 is far enough back to remove the obscuring effects of the lesser solar and oceanic cycles and chaotic
internal system variability.
That is obviously not happening so
internal system variability is not enough on it's own whether you acknowledge that or not.
How can such
internal system variability occur other than in the form of multiple, variable and overlapping cycles such as the authors are attempting to unravel?
Stephen Wilde says: July 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm How can such
internal system variability occur other than in the form of multiple, variable and overlapping cycles such as the authors are attempting to unravel?
You dismiss this paper as «cyclomania at its worst» yet in previous discussions with me you have averred that all of observed climate change is a result of
internal system variability.
The models currently assume a generally static global energy budget with relatively little
internal system variability so that measurable changes in the various input and output components can only occur from external forcing agents such as changes in the CO2 content of the air caused by human emissions or perhaps temporary after effects from volcanic eruptions, meteorite strikes or significant changes in solar power output.
The current models neither fully recognise the presence of
that internal system variability nor the processes that ultimately stabilise it.
To the contrary, it allows attribution of a prolonged hiatus to
internal system variability, superimposed upon and obscuring a background trend.
Not exact matches
«Global warming is not a linear process and happens on top of
internal variability inherent to the climate
system.
«Although this widening is considered a «natural» mode of climate
variability, implying tropical widening is primarily driven by
internal dynamics of the climate
system, we also show that anthropogenic pollutants have driven trends in the PDO,» Allen said.
The recent slowdown in global warming has brought into question the reliability of climate model projections of future temperature change and has led to a vigorous debate over whether this slowdown is the result of naturally occurring,
internal variability or forcing external to Earth's climate
system.
We present a new modeling
system that predicts both
internal variability and externally forced changes and hence forecasts surface temperature with substantially improved skill throughout a decade, both globally and in many regions.
Our
system predicts that
internal variability will partially offset the anthropogenic global warming signal for the next few years.
«We have shown that
internal global climate -
system variability accounts for at least 80 % of the observed global climate variation over the past half - century.
The results indicate that naturally induced climate variations seem to be dominated by two
internal variability modes of the ocean — atmosphere
system: AMO and El Niño Southern Oscillation
Moreover, any
internal variability in the
system will be superimposed on this even stronger growing positive trend, shifting the base climate into a state not seen for at least a few million years.
This is due to
internal variability and Trenberth was lamenting that our observation
systems can't comprehensively track all the energy flow through the climate
system.
There are two types of natural
variability: those external and
internal to the climate
system.
The model ensemble should average out
internal variability of the climate / weather
system and leave only the forced response.
There is certainly noise in the record due to varying amounts of data, quality control problems, and
internal variability of the climate
system but the long - term trend seem robust.»
When will «the use of the latest information on external influences on the climate
system and adjusting for
internal variability associated with ENSO» make its way into the projection model?
So the thousands of papers on
internal variability of the climate
system were apparently written by Martian bloggers and not climate scientists?
As for OHC, it is likely to be a combination of
internal variability, not accounting for heat increases below 700m, and issues with the observing
system — compare to the Lyman et al analysis.
It is suggested strongly that the earlier warming was natural
internal climate -
system variability, whereas the recent SAT changes are a response to anthropogenic forcing.
Climate change can have two types of causes: external forcing or
internal variability in the climate
system.
There is also an important question of the degree to which
internal variability can influence the attributable temperature change, given that the Millar result is contingent on knowing what the forced temperature response of the
system is.
While rereading the ocean heat content changes by Levitus 2005 at http://www.nodc.noaa.gov/OC5/PDF/PAPERS/grlheat05.pdf a remarkable sentence was noticed: «However, the large decrease in ocean heat content starting around 1980 suggests that
internal variability of the Earth
system significantly affects Earth's heat balance on decadal time - scales.»
The strongest
internal variability in the climate
system on this time scale is the change from El Niño to La Niña — a natural, stochastic «seesaw» in the tropical Pacific called ENSO (El Niño Southern Oscillation).
These factors driving the present changes of the NHSM
system are instrumental for understanding and predicting future decadal changes and determining the proportions of climate change that are attributable to anthropogenic effects and long - term
internal variability in the complex climate
system.
Based on results from large ensemble simulations with the Community Earth
System Model, we show that
internal variability alone leads to a prediction uncertainty of about two decades, while scenario uncertainty between the strong (Representative Concentration Pathway (RCP) 8.5) and medium (RCP4.5) forcing scenarios [possible paths for greenhouse gas emissions] adds at least another 5 years.
The summation of our understanding of the climate at this point is that there is natural
variability, both
internal to the
system due to complex feedbacks, and external forcings.
Any dissipative
system supplied with energy is known to exhibit a huge amount of
internal variability.
As far as surface temperature is concerned — the Royal Society said that climate change is the result of ordered forcing and
internal climate
variability as a result of climate being an example of a chaotic
system.
That is because there is some
internal variability in temperature, because volcanic temperature responses are not commensurate with instaneous volcanic forcings due to thermal inertia, and because earlier forcings will have more fully worked through the
system than will have later forcings.
The disagreement arises from different assessments of the value and importance of particular classes of evidence as well as disagreement about the appropriate logical framework for linking and assessing the evidence — my reasoning is weighted heavily in favor of observational evidence and understanding of natural
internal variability of the climate
system, whereas the IPCC's reasoning is weighted heavily in favor of climate model simulations and external forcing of climate change.
In principle, changes in climate on a wide range of timescales can also arise from variations within the climate
system due to, for example, interactions between the oceans and the atmosphere; in this document, this is referred to as «
internal climate
variability».
In attempting to substantiate this
internal variability hypothesis, Spencer & Braswell (2011) assumed that the change in top of the atmosphere (TOA) energy flux due to cloud cover changes from 2000 to 2010 was twice as large as the heating of the climate
system through ocean circulation.
IN this case, Judith's explains her own «bias» (what could be fairer that that) thusly: «my reasoning is weighted heavily in favor of observational evidence and understanding of natural
internal variability of the climate
system, whereas the IPCC's reasoning is weighted heavily in favor of climate model simulations and external forcing of climate change.»