bozza @ 354, even emissions at 10 % of current rates would be sufficient to keep on increaseing atmospheric CO2 concentrations, and ergo prevent net
ocean outgassing of CO2.
Not exact matches
This was probably due to
outgassing of CO2 from the warming
oceans and the reverse effect when they cooled.
By breaking up petroleum into smaller droplets that dissolved faster in the deep
ocean, the dispersants decreased the amounts
of volatile toxic compounds that rose to the surface and
outgassed into the air.
Its
oceans didn't develop for about a billion years, due to a thicker crust and lithosphere that delayed the start
of volcanic
outgassing.
Kevin Cannon and colleagues propose that a large proportion
of Martian clays were formed when the primary crust reacted with a dense steam or supercritical atmosphere
of water and carbon dioxide that was
outgassed during magma
ocean cooling.
If you have this notion that
ocean outgassing is the cause
of the current CO2 increase, I recommend you do some simple calculations for yourself (see below).
Rising temperatures will cause
outgassing of CO2 from the
oceans, but its C12 / C13 ratio will be that
of the atmosphere when sinking thermohaline circulation took the CO2 from the atmosphere ~ 1600 years ago, which is different from fossil fuels.
Then posters like Mr. Benson in # 7 blithly exclaim, «Just so nobody is mislead by your maunderings, NOAA measures the uptake /
outgassing of the
oceans».
kim (1)-- Just so nobody is mislead by your maunderings, NOAA measures the uptake /
outgassing of the
oceans.
In that context, gravity waves roil and depressurize the
oceans, and that then leads to
outgassing of CO2 — it comes out
of solution in the
ocean and bubbles to the surface and their given capacitive couplings impacting pH runs back to ion form — which then impacts conductivity.
These are the kinds
of very complex space weather discussions that need to occur, and at the end
of the day CO2 is DEPENDANT on these solar events as CO2 is ELECTRICAL from a conductivity standpoint in the
oceans, connected to surface lows and
outgassing and
ocean surface ion counts.
The observed CO2 increase in the world
ocean disproves another popular #fakenews piece
of the «climate skeptics»: namely that the CO2 increase in the atmosphere might have been caused by the
outgassing of CO2 from the
ocean as a result
of the warming.
Temperature increases cause CO2 increases (e.g.,
ocean outgassing), as well as visa versa, so in itself cointegration, and therefore correlation in levels, is not evidence
of AGW.
I read online within the past two weeks that Russian scientists were up in the northern
oceans somewhere and they saw tons
of hot spots
of methane bubbling out from the
ocean surface.I think it was in ScienceDaily.The question posed by these scientists was «is this
outgassing a normal melting
of methane that has been going on for many thousands
of years, or, is it an upward tick
of significance?»
The positive correlation indicates that the
ocean outgasses CO2 compared to its mean state when the SAM is positive, i.e. when the winds are intensified South
of 45ºS (20), and suggests that wind - driven upwelling and associated ventilation
of the sub-surface waters rich in carbon dominates the variability in CO2 flux (18).
As the rate
of net CO2
outgassing from the
ocean then is affected by reduced solubility, this offers a simple physical explanation
of the observed time lag.
Iff we were to cut CO2 emissions in half tomorrow would we still go past 580ppm by 2100 due to possible
outgassing of the
ocean?
On longer term, this effect is countered by the increase
of CO2 in the atmosphere: more CO2 in the atmosphere means a higher pCO2, thus a smaller difference in pCO2 over the warm
oceans, thus reducing the
outgassing of CO2.
Most interesting is that the about monthly variations correlate with the lunar phases (peak on full moon) The Helsinki Background measurements 1935 The first background measurements in history; sampling data in vertical profile every 50 - 100m up to 1,5 km; 364 ppm underthe clouds and above Haldane measurements at the Scottish coast 370 ppmCO2 in winds from the sea; 355 ppm in air from the land Wattenberg measurements in the southern Atlantic
ocean 1925-1927 310 sampling stations along the latitudes of the southern Atlantic oceans and parts of the northern; measuring all oceanographic data and CO2 in air over the sea; high ocean outgassing crossing the warm water currents north (> ~ 360 ppm) Buchs measurements in the northern Atlantic ocean 1932 - 1936 sampling CO2 over sea surface in northern Atlantic Ocean up to the polar circle (Greenland, Iceland, Spitsbergen, Barents Sea); measuring also high CO2 near Spitsbergen (Spitsbergen current, North Cape current) 364 ppm and CO2 over sea crossing the Atlantic from Kopenhagen to Newyork and back (Brements on a swedish island Lundegards CO2 sampling on swedish island (Kattegatt) in summer from 1920 - 1926; rising CO2 concentration (+7 ppm) in the 20s; ~ 328 ppm yearly av
ocean 1925-1927 310 sampling stations along the latitudes
of the southern Atlantic
oceans and parts
of the northern; measuring all oceanographic data and CO2 in air over the sea; high
ocean outgassing crossing the warm water currents north (> ~ 360 ppm) Buchs measurements in the northern Atlantic ocean 1932 - 1936 sampling CO2 over sea surface in northern Atlantic Ocean up to the polar circle (Greenland, Iceland, Spitsbergen, Barents Sea); measuring also high CO2 near Spitsbergen (Spitsbergen current, North Cape current) 364 ppm and CO2 over sea crossing the Atlantic from Kopenhagen to Newyork and back (Brements on a swedish island Lundegards CO2 sampling on swedish island (Kattegatt) in summer from 1920 - 1926; rising CO2 concentration (+7 ppm) in the 20s; ~ 328 ppm yearly av
ocean outgassing crossing the warm water currents north (> ~ 360 ppm) Buchs measurements in the northern Atlantic
ocean 1932 - 1936 sampling CO2 over sea surface in northern Atlantic Ocean up to the polar circle (Greenland, Iceland, Spitsbergen, Barents Sea); measuring also high CO2 near Spitsbergen (Spitsbergen current, North Cape current) 364 ppm and CO2 over sea crossing the Atlantic from Kopenhagen to Newyork and back (Brements on a swedish island Lundegards CO2 sampling on swedish island (Kattegatt) in summer from 1920 - 1926; rising CO2 concentration (+7 ppm) in the 20s; ~ 328 ppm yearly av
ocean 1932 - 1936 sampling CO2 over sea surface in northern Atlantic
Ocean up to the polar circle (Greenland, Iceland, Spitsbergen, Barents Sea); measuring also high CO2 near Spitsbergen (Spitsbergen current, North Cape current) 364 ppm and CO2 over sea crossing the Atlantic from Kopenhagen to Newyork and back (Brements on a swedish island Lundegards CO2 sampling on swedish island (Kattegatt) in summer from 1920 - 1926; rising CO2 concentration (+7 ppm) in the 20s; ~ 328 ppm yearly av
Ocean up to the polar circle (Greenland, Iceland, Spitsbergen, Barents Sea); measuring also high CO2 near Spitsbergen (Spitsbergen current, North Cape current) 364 ppm and CO2 over sea crossing the Atlantic from Kopenhagen to Newyork and back (Brements on a swedish island Lundegards CO2 sampling on swedish island (Kattegatt) in summer from 1920 - 1926; rising CO2 concentration (+7 ppm) in the 20s; ~ 328 ppm yearly average
Temperature increase causes
outgassing of CO2 from the
oceans same way your soda fizzles when warm and calms down when cold.
Cold water in clouds is the nearest sink that absorbs the CO2 that is
outgassed from the surface
of the
ocean.
If most
of this is from the
ocean outgassing (according to Henry's Law) as it tries to equilibriate with the new temperatures, atmospheric CO2 concentration will continue to rise along with the fossil fuel component part
of it.
It remains a bit speculative just what they are, but there are a number
of plausible mechanisms:
outgassing from warming
ocean waters, carbon released from warming soils, methane from thawing permafrost, methane from clathrates in
ocean sediment.
If the annual change
of approximately 6ppmv in atmospheric CO2 content was due primarily to
ocean outgassing the warmest temperatures would correspond to the highest concentration
of CO2.
Climate sensitivity is the doubling
of temperature from a rise in CO2 that is being
outgassed by the
oceans as a result
of the rising temperature (and that are in fact absorbing, not emitting CO2).
CO2 was being increased by heating
of the
oceans and
outgassing of CO2 from them, not the other way around.
«
Outgassing» would require equilibrium between
ocean and atmosphere to be the reverse
of reality.
In broader terms, it doesn't matter to delineate the thermal activation
of CO2
outgassing in the
ocean and the analogous effects in the biota.
Some
of that will be due to the physical
ocean outgassing and
of course some
of that is due to biotic processes.
A small correction is made for differential
outgassing of O2 and N2 with the increased temperature
of the
ocean as estimated by Levitus et al. (2000).
Chemistry tells us how much CO2 should rise from
ocean outgassing with each degree and it is a small fraction
of the rise that has actually occurred with the first degree
of warming.
The inferred
ocean uptake pattern shows the sum
of two components: the natural carbon cycle in which CO2 is
outgassed in the tropics and taken up in the extratropics, and the perturbation uptake
of anthropogenic CO2.
I think that co2
outgasses at the rate
of 6ppm per 1 degree C temperature rise
of the
ocean.
I accept that most
of the rise from 280 to 400 ppm is caused by human CO2 emissions with the possibility that some
of it is due to
outgassing from warming
of the
oceans.
He cites the
outgassing of Co2 from
oceans on p. 68, and in a talk
of his that has circulated.
I don't need to explain it for my Model to remain valid.The concept
of ocean outgassing in response to more sunlight is a useful add on but not an integral component because I do not ascribe significant climate forcing to that CO2.
My model is neutral as regards the actual source
of the extra CO2 but would be consistent with
ocean outgassing.
The emissions and their partitioning only include the fluxes that have changed since 1750, and not the natural CO2 fluxes (e.g., atmospheric CO2 uptake from weathering,
outgassing of CO2 from lakes and rivers, and
outgassing of CO2 by the
ocean from carbon delivered by rivers) between the atmosphere, land and
ocean reservoirs that existed before that time and still exist today.
It is plan bad arithmetic to say that
outgassing 16 ppm per degree, even for the whole
ocean, can feed an uptake
of 300 ppm for the new seawater when the rise was what, 400 ft??
Outgassing from the
oceans makes its atmospheric concentration follow long - term global variations
of temperature closely enough to inspire incredible surmises
of causality, when viewing compressed time - histories from the Cenozoic onward.
I ask because the paper has a freshwater pulse (taking CO2 out
of the air) and later CO2
outgassing from the (diluted)
ocean.
RealClimate is wonderful, and an excellent source
of reliable information.As I've said before, methane is an extremely dangerous component to global warming.Comment # 20 is correct.There is a sharp melting point to frozen methane.A huge increase in the release
of methane could happen within the next 50 years.At what point in the Earth's temperature rise and the rise
of co2 would a huge methane melt occur?No one has answered that definitive issue.If I ask you all at what point would huge amounts
of extra methane start melting, i.e at what temperature rise
of the
ocean near the Artic methane ice deposits would the methane melt, or at what point in the rise
of co2 concentrations in the atmosphere would the methane melt, I believe that no one could currently tell me the actual answer as to where the sharp melting point exists.
Of course, once that tipping point has been reached, and billions
of tons
of methane
outgass from what had been locked stores
of methane, locked away for an eternity, it is exactly the same as the burning
of stored fossil fuels which have been stored for an eternity as well.And even though methane does not have as long a life as co2, while it is around in the air it can cause other tipping points, i.e. permafrost melting, to arrive much sooner.I will reiterate what I've said before on this and other sites.Methane is a hugely underreported, underestimated risk.How about RealClimate attempts to model exactly what would happen to other tipping points, such as the melting permafrost, if indeed a huge increase in the melting
of the methal hydrate ice WERE to occur within the next 50 years.My amateur guess is that the huge, albeit temporary, increase in methane over even three or four decades might push other relevent tipping points to arrive much, much, sooner than they normally would, thereby vastly incresing negative feedback mechanisms.We KNOW that quick, huge, changes occured in the Earth's climate in the past.See other relevent posts in the past from Realclimate.Climate often does not change slowly, but undergoes huge, quick, changes periodically, due to negative feedbacks accumulating, and tipping the climate to a quick change.Why should the danger from huge potential methane releases be vievwed with any less trepidation?
«All these processes give a taste
of the complex interaction between sea ice, biological productivity, and deep water upwelling as mechanisms controlling CO2
outgassing in the Southern
Ocean, particularly at the Antarctic Polar Front, where they are strongly coupled.»
During these events, the anoxic
oceans outgassed enough toxic hydrogen sulfide to cause varying sizes
of mass extinctions
of marine and terrestrial life.
The net impact
of the 2015 — 2016 El Niño event on the global carbon cycle is an increase in atmospheric CO2 concentrations, which would likely be larger if it were not for the reduction in
outgassing from the
ocean.
When global temperatures increase, the
oceans give up some
of their CO2,
outgassing it into the atmosphere and increasing atmospheric concentrations.
Strong AGW supporters on the other hand argue that while the sun may have caused the initial temperature spike and
outgassing of CO2 from the
oceans, further temperature increases were caused by the increases in CO2.
The time - lag between changes in temperature and consequent changes in CO2 concentration are caused by
outgassing of CO2 from the
oceans when they warm and uptake by the
oceans as they cool.