The model simulations, being different realizations
of a chaotic system do not have their warm and cold anomalies in the same years as the observations.
Not exact matches
The full U.S.
system is «
doing its thing,» and the result
of that decentralized, bottom - up — and sometimes
chaotic — process, which involves not only the three branches
of judiciary, legislature, and executive, but also civil society, will ultimately result in a correction
of draconian policy.
It's a classic example
of how a product that tests well in the artificial environment
of a survey or taste test doesn't necessarily perform the same way «in the wild», when subject to the full
chaotic system of public opinion.
You can control time in a way that you can never
do in real life and get some sense
of how
chaotic a
system can be.
In the report, Educating School Teachers, Dr. Arthur Levine calls the teacher education
system «
chaotic» and out
of touch with what should be the new benchmark for assessing teacher preparation programs: How well students
do when a colleges graduates get in front
of a class.
Angela Rayner, Labour's shadow education secretary, said the changes had been «
chaotic» and that half
of businesses «don't even know that this new grading
system is coming in».
As evidence
of the
chaotic development
of the statutory basis
of the school
system since 2010, these provisions
do not apply to Academies, and I
do not know
of a debate that they should apply.
Of course, these results can not be directly extrapolated to the real climate
system, but they
do disprove the common but misguided claim that
chaotic weather necessarily prevents meaningful climate prediction.
You said, in post 198: «Therefore climate
does have attributes
of chaotic system, contrary to what Dan Allan claimed.
And such a feat is likely to remain impossible for the foreseeable future, because a) the mathematics are
chaotic (in the technical sense, which I presume I don't need to explain), and b) the data we have, though already voluminous, is not even close quantitatively and qualitatively to the fantastic precision needed to specify the state
of the planetary
system as definitively as that.
The interaction
of complex
systems behaving in a
chaotic manner that are impossible to model is ignored Anything you don't understand you blame on CO2.
The property
of a
chaotic system is that it is not predictible and doesn't follow statistical laws.
Separating the direct effects
of all this, not to mention the feedbacks (this stuff ISN» T additive, even tho it is convenient to think it is), is something that no one has adequately
done, and I suspect that it is an ill posed problem given the nonlinear
chaotic nature
of the climate
system
Using error - propagation the way it is
done here shows precisely the same mistake that seems to appear in a lot
of climate models, a false assumption
of linearity, starting from some conditions in a
system that is physically strongly non-linear and numerically
chaotic.
One
does not have to be skeptical about the science
of global warming to be skeptical
of excessively «certain» long term predictions that involve weather and climate, the ultimate
chaotic system that can not be accurately predicted.
The IPCC doesn't foretell the future, it stated in TAR that it was impossible for forecast the future state
of a coupled non-linear
chaotic system.
Instead what is needed is an entirely different approach so far used by only a few researchers that
does not attempt to build models
of coupled, non-linear
chaotic systems such as climate.
This
does not imply, however, that the behaviour
of non-linear
chaotic systems is entirely unpredictable, contrary to what is meant by «
chaotic» in colloquial language.»
This
does not change Willis» argument just adds yet another possibly
chaotic variable that needs to be factored into
chaotic system of chaotic subsystems.
Even for a
system which is
chaotic, paths through the parameter space
do not necessarily fill the entire space and measures
of the areas which are filled can be used to make future predictions.
The fact that climate scientists
do not treat climate as a
chaotic system demonstrates the futility
of their research and the invalidity
of their conclusions.
They
do not attempt to predict or reenact the exact internal behavior
of any preexisting
system because a
chaotic system is, by its very nature, unable to be duplicated.
If I can not say 100 % this will be the state
of the
system at any given point doesn't mean the
system is really
chaotic.
Tomas, when you couple a
chaotic system with random control - parameter variations (solar input, in particular, in the case
of Earth) you
do indeed get random, unpredictable responses (unless the control parameters are varied through some sort
of feedback - loop to actually control the
system — not relevant to this situation).
Characteristic
of this school is the following quote: But as soon as you add any sort
of noise, your perfect
chaotic system becomes a mere stochastic one over long time periods, and probabilities really
do apply.
Anybody not understanding those facts either
do not understand the profound and mostly unknown complexities
of the
chaotic system or are paid to look the other way.
The movement
of pressure
systems is irregular both in latitude and longitude because
of the underlying
chaotic behaviour
of the weather
systems but move they clearly
do.
In my opinion it is an unanswerable question and the use
of the term anomaly is BS because it is a
chaotic system that we don't even know what all the variables are.
... Models
of our complex and
chaotic climate
system simply don't make useful predictions after a few days» time.
Chaotic systems generally
do not run out
of control but have behaviours dominated by attractors.
The basic science, in terms
of the feedbacks, is unproven because there is no repeatable empirical evidence, and because it relies on computer modelling
of chaotic systems, which can not be
done in a deterministic way.
I don't particuarly understand your point — that they use «slowing down» and «noisy bifurcation» rather than some unspecified other property
of chaotic systems?
Once this
done, and provided the dynamics has the ergodic property (a
chaotic system may be but has not to be ergodic), one can apply the regodic theorem and study the probabilities
of the different states.
If we have a
chaotic system with two attractors where the choice
of the attractor is not controlled by external forcing (like Milankovitch cycles) but by random factors then this
does not work, but if the external forcings dominate in the choice then there are no problems
of the type you indicate.
I
do not «believe» in cycles or other such efforts to make sense
of a
chaotic system.
All
of these
chaotic systems you are desribing
do not change the internal energy
of the
system and will only increase entropy.
The thing is, in
chaotic systems, particularly markets where «positive feedbacks» are the norm, you don't really have a normal distribution
of adverse events.
Clouds
do change spontaneously in
chaotic, emergent ways as part
of the connected Earth
system.
The best one can
do with a
chaotic (or quasi-
chaotic)
system is to identify a set
of apparent oscillations and to extrapolate them.
I
do think weather and climate clearly
chaotic (as per fact, Lorenz and the rest), but I also think the time and effort being put into the forecasting
of both suggest a lot
of fine minds think useful prediction
of this
chaotic system possible.
Being
chaotic, the
system will oscillate, as we see it
do at all scales
of interest, but there is literally no reason to believe that the net effect
of these oscillations will be warming.
The main evidence for catastrophic anthropogenic global warming (CAGW), the principal alleged adverse effect
of human emissions
of carbon dioxide (CO2), is climate models built by CAGW supporters in a field where models with real predictive power
do not exist and can not be built with any demonstrable accuracy beyond a week or two because climate and weather are coupled non-linear
chaotic systems.
As we have seen in part I and II
of the series, low frequency - high amplitude climate change
does not take place in a
chaotic manner, but mainly through cycles, quasicycles, and oscillations that respond to periodic changes in the forcings that act over the climate
system.
AMO / PDO on the other hand are
system states that last 20 - 40 years, and there's very good reasons to think that they are the cause
of the entire modern warming, these should be modeled by GCM's, but they don't
do this either, and they have a far bigger effect on «climate» while the smaller scale
chaotic artifacts have no effect on «climate».
Natural fluctuations don't quite average out (e.g. solar, ocean circulation regimes) because the
system is nonlinear and
chaotic and can be «poked» into shifting through an interaction
of external forcing (natural or anthropogenic) and the circulations
of atmospheres and oceans.
The resulting situation is in most cases stable as long as external factors
do not force a change, but attractors
of a
chaotic system may give the impression
of such stability.
CO2 rise is an external forcing in a spatiotemporal
chaotic system, a perturbation
of attractors, a stick bludgeoning a hornet nest that we
do not understand, other than to understand we are dependent on the nest and the hornets in myriad and diverse ways.
It doesn't matter how
chaotic or complex the
system, there must be a reason why modes
of variation
do not vanish over time.
I appreciate the time you have put into that but I don't think 1860 is far enough back to remove the obscuring effects
of the lesser solar and oceanic cycles and
chaotic internal
system variability.
Not that I don't have my own ideas but, whatever you think
of economy as a science, I can assure you that some
of the finest minds in the past centuries have dedicated their best efforts rather fruitlessly to find responses for a
system that is at least as complex and
chaotic as climate: «humans trying to satisfy their needs and wishes with limited resources».