Satellite data only goes back about 30 years and is in rough agreement with the surface analysis and model expectations
of changes in the lapse rate.
Most of the moisture is found below about 10,000 feet, so that is where the effect
of changes in lapse rate will be felt, and the effect of an increase in moisture is to decrease the near - surface lapse rate, potentially resulting in an important negative feedback on radiative forcing.
Not exact matches
It has been argued that the land amplification is associated with
lapse rate changes (not represented
in the UVic model), and it is certain that drying
of the land can play a role (not reliable
in the UVic model since diffusing water vapor gives you a crummy hydrological cycle, especially over land).
The models can't reproduce the rapid climate
change at the end
of the Younger Drys, nor can the models reproduce the
lapse rate in the tropics measured by radiosondes and MSUs.
So for all this discussion
of changing lapse rates, the data's right
in front
of our noses, isn't it?
Indeed, there is a clear physical reason why this is the case — the increase
in water vapour as surface air temperature rises causes a
change in the moist - adiabatic
lapse rate (the decrease
of temperature with height) such that the surface to mid-tropospheric gradient decreases with increasing temperature (i.e. it warms faster aloft).
In both models and data there is the expected enhancement of the variability in the lower - troposhere (based simply on the expected changes in the moist adiabatic lapse rate as the surface temperature changes
In both models and data there is the expected enhancement
of the variability
in the lower - troposhere (based simply on the expected changes in the moist adiabatic lapse rate as the surface temperature changes
in the lower - troposhere (based simply on the expected
changes in the moist adiabatic lapse rate as the surface temperature changes
in the moist adiabatic
lapse rate as the surface temperature
changes).
Temperature tends to respond so that, depending on optical properties, LW emission will tend to reduce the vertical differential heating by cooling warmer parts more than cooler parts (for the surface and atmosphere); also (not significant within the atmosphere and ocean
in general, but significant at the interface betwen the surface and the air, and also significant (
in part due to the small heat fluxes involved, viscosity
in the crust and somewhat
in the mantle (where there are thick boundary layers with superadiabatic
lapse rates) and thermal conductivity
of the core)
in parts
of the Earth's interior) temperature
changes will cause conduction / diffusion
of heat that partly balances the differential heating.
In our simple picture, feedback processes affect changes in the height of the level where most heat loss takes place, the slope of the lapse rate, and heating at the surface (and hence the emission temperature
In our simple picture, feedback processes affect
changes in the height of the level where most heat loss takes place, the slope of the lapse rate, and heating at the surface (and hence the emission temperature
in the height
of the level where most heat loss takes place, the slope
of the
lapse rate, and heating at the surface (and hence the emission temperature).
In principle, T ′ should account for changes in the temperature of the surface and the troposphere, and since the lapse rate is assumed to be known or is assumed to be a function of surface temperature, T ′ can be approximated by the surface temperature.&raqu
In principle, T ′ should account for
changes in the temperature of the surface and the troposphere, and since the lapse rate is assumed to be known or is assumed to be a function of surface temperature, T ′ can be approximated by the surface temperature.&raqu
in the temperature
of the surface and the troposphere, and since the
lapse rate is assumed to be known or is assumed to be a function
of surface temperature, T ′ can be approximated by the surface temperature.»
With one band (along with the convective
lapse rate below the tropopause) establishing the atmospheric temperature profile, adding some other band
of absorption may result
in some different pattern
of temperature
change.
The issue with the Mauritsen and Stevens piece is that it tries to go well beyond a «what if» modeling experiment, and attempts to make contact with a lot
of other issues related to historical climate
change (the hiatus,
changes in the hydrologic cycle, observed tropical
lapse rate «hotspot» stuff,
changes in the atmsopheric circulation, etc) by means
of what the «iris» should look like
in other climate signals.
First, for
changing just CO2 forcing (or CH4, etc, or for a non-GHE forcing, such as a
change in incident solar radiation, volcanic aerosols, etc.), there will be other GHE radiative «forcings» (feedbacks, though
in the context
of measuring their radiative effect, they can be described as having radiative forcings
of x W / m2 per
change in surface T), such as water vapor feedback, LW cloud feedback, and also, because GHE depends on the vertical temperature distribution, the
lapse rate feedback (this generally refers to the tropospheric
lapse rate, though
changes in the position
of the tropopause and
changes in the stratospheric temperature could also be considered
lapse -
rate feedbacks for forcing at TOA; forcing at the tropopause with stratospheric adjustment takes some
of that into account; sensitivity to forcing at the tropopause with stratospheric adjustment will generally be different from sensitivity to forcing without stratospheric adjustment and both will generally be different from forcing at TOA before stratospheric adjustment; forcing at TOA after stratospehric adjustment is identical to forcing at the tropopause after stratospheric adjustment).
Another interesting detail from the Romps et al lightning flash modeling was the modeling
of the
change in CAPE that would accompany a
change in the moist
lapse rate.
confuses the question as the main driver
of the «thermal» structural
changes in the upper troposphere is not the
lapse rate changes as such, it is the water vapour itself.
3)
In the examination
of the model for the GHE above, the initial radiation balance, plus the adiabatic -
lapse rate, is what has set the structure
of the temperature profile; and then the addition
of more GHG to the temperature field causes a radiative imbalance that
changes the temperature profile until the imbalance goes away.
And I
change my mind about convection
in this GHG - free case: I have to remember that the adiabatic
lapse rate only sets an upper limit
of the temperature decline with altitude;
in fact conditions
of temperature inversion,
in which the temperature is constant or rises with altitude, are also stable.
... Cloud formation is influenced by countless processes... the presence
of cloud condensation nuclei, the temperature
lapse rate and temperature inversions, wind shear, the presence
of fronts,
changes in ocean upwelling, to name a few.
Using the equation
of state, the first law
of thermodynamics, and the hydrostatic equation we can find that the
rate of adiabatic temperature
change in an ascending air parcel (also termed the adiabatic
lapse rate and denoted Γd) is constant:..»]
As Frank pointed out
in a comment at Science
of Doom, the
change in downwelling longwave radiation is only redistributing energy, contributing to some warming at the surface, perhaps with some effect on ocean overturning, and
changing the
lapse rate.
This
change results
in the column
of fluid being out
of thermodynamic equilibrium and results
in an isentropic profile defined by a temperature
lapse rate.
«A recent report
of the U.S. Climate
Change Science Program (CCSP) identified a «potentially serious inconsistency» between modelled and observed trends
in tropical
lapse rates.»
The modification
of all feedback parameters results
in changes of the sum
of all feedbacks (water vapour, cloud,
lapse rate and albedo), spanning a minimum — maximum range
of 71 % (63 %)
of the mean value for the correlated (uncorrelated) ensemble.
But wet
lapse rate isn't about weight
of atmosphere [
in terms weight it's slightly lighter due lower density gas] but it's about an increase
of energy [there is both kinetic and potential - but it's concerning
change phase
of water from gas to liquid - so kinetic energy which affects the pressure.
Alternative title: temperature
lapse rate Lapse rate,
rate of change in temperature observed while moving upward through the Earth's atmosphere.
Satellites show that OLR from clear skies increases less than about 1 W / m2 less than expected per degC
of warming from
changes in water vapor and
lapse rate (two
of your response channels).
The
lapse rate, strictly speaking, applies to elevation above ground level (which is strongly affected by local atmospheric conditions such as absolute humidity and the
rate of change of the absolute humidity
in space and time) and this should be considered when making certain kinds
of comparisons.
Changes in the opacity
of the atmosphere or the
lapse rate make those calculations invalid.
Motivated by findings that major components
of so - called cloud «feedbacks» are best understood as rapid responses to CO2 forcing (Gregory and Webb
in J Clim 21:58 — 71, 2008), the top
of atmosphere (TOA) radiative effects from forcing, and the subsequent responses to global surface temperature
changes from all «atmospheric feedbacks» (water vapour,
lapse rate, surface albedo, «surface temperature» and cloud) are examined
in detail
in a General Circulation Model.
One resolves
in this manner the short - term components
of the climate response, such as hydrological perturbations associated with
changes in lapse rate.
Simply
changing the carbon dioxide content
of the atmosphere by 30 percent has major impacts
in the adiabatic
lapse rate and the
rate at which radiated heat is passed from the planet.
Based on the understanding
of both the physical processes that control key climate feedbacks (see Section 8.6.3), and also the origin
of inter-model differences
in the simulation
of feedbacks (see Section 8.6.2), the following climate characteristics appear to be particularly important: (i) for the water vapour and
lapse rate feedbacks, the response
of upper - tropospheric RH and
lapse rate to interannual or decadal
changes in climate; (ii) for cloud feedbacks, the response
of boundary - layer clouds and anvil clouds to a
change in surface or atmospheric conditions and the
change in cloud radiative properties associated with a
change in extratropical synoptic weather systems; (iii) for snow albedo feedbacks, the relationship between surface air temperature and snow melt over northern land areas during spring and (iv) for sea ice feedbacks, the simulation
of sea ice thickness.
This difference reflects the respective
changes in the
rate of temperature decrease with altitude (or
lapse rate), which is
in turn influenced by the amount
of moisture
in the atmosphere.
As I understand it, you expect overall more atmospheric warming mainly because
of changes in the moist adiabatic
lapse rate.
The models do predict a
change in lapse rate... They predict that, overall, the
lapse rate will DECREASE (mainly because
of the decrease
in lapse rate in the tropics... You know, the so - called «hot spot» that
in a post above you claimed is missing).
So, if you «try» to
change the temperature structure
of the atmosphere by
changing the heat flows between the surface and atmosphere, the atmosphere just responds by altering the convection to cancel out most
of this
change and you end up with basically the same temperature structure you started with (modulo the issues involving the moist adiabatic
lapse rate... i.e., the fact that the adiabatic
lapse rate changes some with heating, which genuinely does cause a
change in the temperature structure and leads to the
lapse rate feedback, a negative feedback already included
in all
of the climate models).
Presence
of condensation processes / water vapor does
change the
lapse rate to the wet adiabatic, but
changes in CO2 have a trivial effect on the wet or dry adiabatic
lapse rate, and the dry adiabatic
lapse rate exists even without the primary GHG water vapor.
However, the large difference
in dry vs wet
lapse rate is not due to the presence
of water vapor
changing the average Cp, but instead due to the progressive condensation
of vapor to liquid or solid at altitude (heat
of condensation being released).
Because the basics
of anthropogenic global warming are fairly straightforward — CO2 is a greenhouse gas, because
of the
lapse rate water vapor condenses or freezes out
in the troposphere and acts mainly to amplify the effect
of CO2, humans are burning a lot
of fossil C and increasing the CO2
in the atmosphere, the surface
of the earth is warming, the cryosphere is retreating, the climate that supports civilization is rapidly
changing, and consequently we are facing an uncertain future — but the details are complex, it's easy to «misunderestimate» the way climate works
in detail.
A greenhouse effect governed by scattering
of IR light would also not be sensitive to a cloud temperature (or the
lapse rate in general) wheras the temperature
change with altitude is the key behind the existence
of the traditional absorption / emission GHG effect on Earth.
To return to an earlier point I raised that a linear
lapse rate mathematically translates a temperature
change at any altitude to other altitudes including the surface, I remain interested
in observational data on linearity is terms
of a flux - weighted global average.
The relationship
of changes at the tropopause to surface
changes does depend on the linearity or non-linearity
of lapse rate (but not to
changes in lapse rate, which are part
of the feedback).
I have found him to be very helpful
in response to such questions (e.g. concerning his calculation
of lapse rate changes in response to altered radiative forcing).
I guess the bigger point is that if the tropical
lapse rate changes in such a way as to destabilize the tropical atmosphere a lot (which I am still skeptical
of), this says that we are missing something important, the implications
of which are hard to predict until we understand it.
To what extent would a reduction
in RH affect the
change in the moist adiabatic
lapse rate as a function
of warming?
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