I note that there was no significant argument in favor
of a chaotic climate.
Not exact matches
The common distinction we make between the notions
of climate and weather rests on that obvious truth in respect to the weather as a
chaotic dynamic system.
Whether or not Mr. Gore understands the difference between the notions
of climate and weather, it is important that we not obscure it by too facile generalizations about
chaotic and irregular behavior.
Jochem Marotzke and Piers M. Forster have now explained the warming pause in terms
of random fluctuations arising from
chaotic processes in the
climate system.
«
Of course, weather is naturally chaotic, and extremes are a normal part of our highly variable UK climate, but globally there has recently been an increase in the incidence of high temperature and heavy precipitation extreme
Of course, weather is naturally
chaotic, and extremes are a normal part
of our highly variable UK climate, but globally there has recently been an increase in the incidence of high temperature and heavy precipitation extreme
of our highly variable UK
climate, but globally there has recently been an increase in the incidence
of high temperature and heavy precipitation extreme
of high temperature and heavy precipitation extremes.
While the ranking
of individual years can be affected by
chaotic weather patterns, the long - term trends are attributable to drivers
of climate change that right now are dominated by human emissions
of greenhouse gases,» said GISS Director Gavin Schmidt.
«The chances
of correctly predicting such variations are much better than the weather for the next few weeks, because the
climate is far less
chaotic than the rapidly changing weather conditions,» said Latif.
«Our research has showed that while the development
of La Niña and El Niño events is
chaotic and hard to predict, the strength
of these events can change over long time spans due to changes in the global
climate,» said one
of the paper's authors Dr Steven Phipps.
Human influences on the
climate (largely the accumulation
of CO2 from fossil fuel combustion) are a physically small (1 %) effect on a complex,
chaotic, multicomponent and multiscale system.
Call it a reaction to the
chaotic climate we're living in or simply a fanciful hearkening back to childhood, but the unicorn craze is out
of control.
A negative classroom
climate can feel hostile,
chaotic, and out
of control.
If anything, things would be far more violent and
chaotic than now had he won, which is ironic considering the current political
climate and all
of the horrible riots happening everywhere trussed up as «peaceful protests».
Secondly, we don't have full information about the current conditions, and so, like for weather forecasts, if there are aspects
of climate change that are
chaotic, we can't predict those over the long term.
On Friday, Todd Stern, the lead United States negotiator in
climate talks, prodded China sharply in a speech at the University
of Michigan Law School, criticizing its negotiators for backtracking from commitments that he said were clear cut under the Copenhagen Accord that emerged from the
chaotic talks last December.
Ocean and atmospheric indices — in this case the El Niño Southern Oscillation, the Pacific Decadal Oscillation, the North Atlantic Oscillation and the North Pacific Oscillation — can be thought
of as
chaotic oscillators that capture the major modes
of climate variability.
I am left with little alternative than to distrust any and all models until more facts are in about this
chaotic climate of ours.
Hi, when I am discussing with
climate skeptics, they often refer to the third report
of the IPCC (page 774): «In
climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear
chaotic system, and therefore that the long - term prediction
of future
climate states is not possible.»
1965 At a Boulder, Colo., meeting on the causes
of climate change, Lorenz and others point out the
chaotic nature
of the
climate system and the possiblity
of sudden shifts.
Also, because
of the complex, possibly
chaotic, nature
of the
climate system, it may never be possible to accurately predict future
climate or to estimate the impact
of increased greenhouse gas concentrations.
It is not, in principle, impossible for coupled ocean - atmosphere
climate to be
chaotic, but all evidence so far points to the likelihood that the strength
of the response to GHG radiative forcing changes overwhelms the effect
of any chaos there may be in the system.
To make my position quite clear, it is not the friction
of air with the surface
of the earth which causes the
climate to be
chaotic, (although this seems to be what James Annan thinks!)
In
climate research and modeling, we should recognize that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear
chaotic system, and therefore that the long - term prediction
of future
climate states is not possible.
And the (current state
of the)
climate isn't
chaotic, though the weather is.
The existence
of D - O cycles appear to demonstrate that the
climate is sometimes in a «base state» from which it will be
chaotic (unless D - O cycles are actually rather more deterministic than generally thought).
[Response: The standard use
of ensembles in transient
climate simulations is because
of the underlying
chaotic dynamics
of the system.
But, on the basis
of studies
of nonlinear
chaotic models with preferred states or «regimes», it has been argued, that the spatial patterns
of the response to anthropogenic forcing may in fact project principally onto modes
of natural
climate variability.
Observations show
chaotic behavior
of the
climate system on all time scales, including sudden regime transitions, as we documented in Rial, J., R.A. Pielke Sr., M. Beniston, M. Claussen, J. Canadell, P. Cox, H. Held, N. de Noblet - Ducoudre, R. Prinn, J. Reynolds, and J.D. Salas, 2004: Nonlinearities, feedbacks and critical thresholds within the Earth's
climate system.
And I'm not aware
of any
climate model that shows
chaotic behaviour on long time scales.
Eg the Lea et al 2002 paper I referenced above has the title «Sensitivity analysis
of the
climate of a
chaotic ocean circulation model».
I think some further explanation
of the statement, «Observations show
chaotic behavior
of the
climate system on all time scales, including sudden regime transitions» is warranted.
The
chaotic nature
of atmospheric solutions
of the Navier - Stokes equations for fluid flow has great impact on weather forecasting (which we discuss first), but the evidence suggests that it has much less importance for
climate prediction.
Of course, these results can not be directly extrapolated to the real
climate system, but they do disprove the common but misguided claim that
chaotic weather necessarily prevents meaningful
climate prediction.
So, while neither any
climate model nor any
climate data set I'm aware
of show any signs
of chaotic behaviour
of climate (rather than weather), and the major
climate variations we know
of can all be understood without needing to resort to chaos, I simply find no reason to believe there is chaos in
climate evolution.
While the
climate may be
chaotic on some timescales (ie millions
of years at one end and very short timescales where it interfaces with weather) it seems to me that all evidence thus far indicates that
climate is broadly deterministic in its response to forcings, at least on any timescale that concerns policy decisions.
[Response: Almost all
of these issues have already been thrashed out in the article Chaos and
Climate In short, there is no real evidence that climate is chaotic in the usual
Climate In short, there is no real evidence that
climate is chaotic in the usual
climate is
chaotic in the usual sense.
The Tiamat Hypothesis, not eponymously named by me, proposes that the
climate is
chaotic, and that it is driven partly by the Clausius - Clapeyron relationship for water vapour, and partly by the changes in the state
of water.
Averaging smoothes out day - to - day and year - to - year natural weather variability and extremes, removing much
of the
chaotic behavior, revealing any underlying long term trends in
climate, such as a long term increase or decrease in temperature, or long term shifts in precipitation patterns.
This means that the
climate has attributes
of chaotic system but can not be proven to be actually
chaotic.
Any state
of the art
climate model (CGCM) under stationary forcing (plus annual cycle) will eventually demonstrate some sort
of chaotic behavior and / or will drift away from the realistic description
of the actual atmosphere.
perhaps it's useful to think that
climate models are used to get an idea
of the statistics
of long - term weather conditions, but the weather itself remains
chaotic and will never be predictable beyond a week or so.
Samson wrote: when I am discussing with
climate skeptics, they often refer to the third report
of the IPCC (page 774): «In
climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled non-linear
chaotic system, and therefore that the long - term prediction
of future
climate states is not possible.»
In the case
of climate models, this is complicated by the fact that the time scales involved need to be long enough to average out the short - term noise, i.e. the
chaotic sequences
of «weather» events.
Regarding
climate vs. weather, consider a pot
of boiling water: It's
chaotic all right, but similar to
climate its behaviour can be predicted within certain parameters.
(Gavin said: ``... if there are aspects
of climate change that are
chaotic...») What does that actually mean?
Indeed if weather is
chaotic — which we all agree on — than it seems certain that, just by virtue
of the two ends
of a thirty - year time slice being effected by one day's worth
of «weather»
climate in some tiny way is also
chaotic.
This is evidence to me
of what already seemed to make sense logically: that
chaotic effects in
climate generally are quite small.
Climate, which is a function
of all
of these things (and more) is plenty
chaotic even without a bunch
of monkeys pumping crap into the air and water.
You said, in post 198: «Therefore
climate does have attributes
of chaotic system, contrary to what Dan Allan claimed.
Well, regarding the question
of whether
climate is / might be
chaotic, I would like to lay one last kick into this dead horse.
Basically, though, Dan Stackhouse's claim that
climate is «
chaotic» is, in the formal sense
of «
climate» and
of «chaos», incorrect.