However, we do not know the functional form
of ice sheet response to a large persistent climate forcing.
Hansen's paper adds in the possibility
of ice sheet response in the relatively near term (centuries, if not decades), which leads to an effective doubling of the sensitivity of climate to our CO2 increase.
(Orbital forcing doesn't have much of a global annual average forcing, and it's even concievable that the sensitivity to orbital forcing as measured in terms of global averages and the long - term response (temporal scale
of ice sheet response) might be approaching infinity or even be negative (if more sunlight is directed onto an ice sheet, the global average albedo might increase, but the ice sheet would be more likely to decay, with a global average albedo feedback that causes warming).
The observational record contradicts the simplifying assumptions used in current models
of ice sheet response.
However, we do not know the functional form
of ice sheet response to a large persistent climate forcing.
Not exact matches
«Also, since this «tipping point» was reached in the late»90s before warming really took off, it indicates that these peripheral glaciers are very sensitive and, potentially, ephemeral relative to the timescales
of response of the
ice sheet,» he added.
Our global climate models zoom down to finer and finer resolutions; our satellites reveal remote corners
of the globe; we increase our understanding
of the
response of giant
ice sheets and deep ocean currents to a warming planet.
Some scientists have argued that Earth's crust in northern portions
of North America is still slowly springing upward in
response to the melting
of the
ice sheet that smothered the region during the last
ice age.
«the last glacial period is a good example
of a large forcing (~ 7 W / m ^ 2 from
ice sheets, greenhouse gases, dust and vegetation) giving a large temperature
response (~ 5 ºC) and implying a sensitivity
of about 3ºC (with substantial error bars).»
For this subsystem, many
of the longer term feedbacks in the full climate system (such as
ice sheets, vegetation
response, the carbon cycle) and some
of the shorter term bio-geophysical feedbacks (methane, dust and other aerosols) are explicitly excluded.
The climate sensitivity classically defined is the
response of global mean temperature to a forcing once all the «fast feedbacks» have occurred (atmospheric temperatures, clouds, water vapour, winds, snow, sea
ice etc.), but before any
of the «slow» feedbacks have kicked in (
ice sheets, vegetation, carbon cycle etc.).
As we have discussed previously, the last glacial period is a good example
of a large forcing (~ 7 W / m2 from
ice sheets, greenhouse gases, dust and vegetation) giving a large temperature
response (~ 5 ºC) and implying a sensitivity
of about 3ºC (with substantial error bars).
Nonetheless, the
ice -
sheet response to global warming remains an area
of what risk analysts call «deep uncertainty».
An additional new feature is the increasingly visible fast dynamic
response of ice shelves, for example, the dramatic breakup of the Larsen B Ice Shelf in 2002, and the acceleration of tributary glaciers and ice streams, with possible consequences for the adjacent part of the ice shee
ice shelves, for example, the dramatic breakup
of the Larsen B
Ice Shelf in 2002, and the acceleration of tributary glaciers and ice streams, with possible consequences for the adjacent part of the ice shee
Ice Shelf in 2002, and the acceleration
of tributary glaciers and
ice streams, with possible consequences for the adjacent part of the ice shee
ice streams, with possible consequences for the adjacent part
of the
ice shee
ice sheets.
More research work is therefore required to improve the reliability
of predictions
of ice -
sheet response on global warming.
Model studies for climate change between the Holocene and the Pliocene, when Earth was about 3 °C warmer, find that slow feedbacks due to changes
of ice sheets and vegetation cover amplified the fast feedback climate
response by 30 — 50 % [216].
The potential for unstable
ice sheet disintegration is controversial, with opinion varying from likely stability
of even the (marine) West Antarctic
ice sheet [94] to likely rapid non-linear
response extending up to multi-meter sea level rise [97]--[98].
Isabella Velicogna can use that information to «study the mass balance
of the Greenland and Antarctic
Ice Sheets and glaciers worldwide, in
response to climate warming.»
The climate sensitivity classically defined is the
response of global mean temperature to a forcing once all the «fast feedbacks» have occurred (atmospheric temperatures, clouds, water vapour, winds, snow, sea
ice etc.), but before any
of the «slow» feedbacks have kicked in (
ice sheets, vegetation, carbon cycle etc.).
More specifically, can one define the
response time
of a particular
ice sheet?
... Polar amplification explains in part why Greenland
Ice Sheet and the West Antarctic
Ice Sheet appear to be highly sensitive to relatively small increases in CO2 concentration and global mean temperature... Polar amplification occurs if the magnitude
of zonally averaged surface temperature change at high latitudes exceeds the globally averaged temperature change, in
response to climate forcings and on time scales greater than the annual cycle.
That rate is not consistent with a top down melting model and implies dynamic
response of ice sheets to warming.
[this is useful, the pre-
ice age era, ~ 2.5 — 3.6 million years ago, last time CO2 levels were as high as today] In
response to Pliocene climate,
ice sheet models consistently produce near - complete deglaciation
of the Greenland
ice sheet (+7 m) and West Antarctic
ice sheet (+4 m) and retreat
of the marine margins
of the Eastern Antarctic
ice sheet (+3 m)(Lunt et al., 2008; Pollard and DeConto, 2009; Hill et al., 2010), altogether corresponding to a global mean sea level rise
of up to 14 m.
[
Response: Here's a simple back -
of - envelope consideration for the future: if the Greenland
ice sheet melts completely over the next ~ 1,000 years (Jim Hansen argues in the current Climatic Change that the time scale could be centuries), this would contribute an average flux
of ~ 0.1 Sv
of freshwater to the surrounding ocean.
Ice -
sheet responses to decadal - scale ocean forcing appear to be less important, possibly indicating that the future response of the Antarctic Ice Sheet will be governed more by long - term anthropogenic warming combined with multi-centennial natural variability than by annual or decadal climate oscillations.&r
sheet responses to decadal - scale ocean forcing appear to be less important, possibly indicating that the future
response of the Antarctic
Ice Sheet will be governed more by long - term anthropogenic warming combined with multi-centennial natural variability than by annual or decadal climate oscillations.&r
Sheet will be governed more by long - term anthropogenic warming combined with multi-centennial natural variability than by annual or decadal climate oscillations.»
From recent instrumental observations alone we are therefore unable to predict whether mass loss from these
ice sheets will vary linearly with changes in the rate
of sea - level rise, or if a non-linear
response is more likely.
[
Response: The thickness
of the greenland
ice sheet is ~ 2000 m on average (don't quote me, that's a ballpark estimate).
«This uncertainty is illustrated by Pollard et al. (2015), who found that addition
of hydro - fracturing and cliff failure into their
ice sheet model increased simulated sea level rise from 2 m to 17 m, in
response to only 2 °C ocean warming and accelerated the time for substantial change from several centuries to several decades.»
«the last glacial period is a good example
of a large forcing (~ 7 W / m ^ 2 from
ice sheets, greenhouse gases, dust and vegetation) giving a large temperature
response (~ 5 ºC) and implying a sensitivity
of about 3ºC (with substantial error bars).»
For this subsystem, many
of the longer term feedbacks in the full climate system (such as
ice sheets, vegetation
response, the carbon cycle) and some
of the shorter term bio-geophysical feedbacks (methane, dust and other aerosols) are explicitly excluded.
The uncertainty includes our own wavering over our human and economic
response, layered over our inability to predict the
ice sheet response as a function
of CO2 and other climate drivers under our control.
Polar amplication is
of global concern due to the potential effects
of future warming on
ice sheet stability and, therefore, global sea level (see Sections 5.6.1, 5.8.1 and Chapter 13) and carbon cycle feedbacks such as those linked with permafrost melting (see Chapter 6)... The magnitude
of polar amplification depends on the relative strength and duration
of different climate feedbacks, which determine the transient and equilibrium
response to external forcings.
[
Response: The
ice age calculations are taking the
ice sheets etc. as fixed boundary conditions that impart a forcing
of their own.
Huybrechts, P. and J. De Wolde, The dynamic
response of the Greenland and Antarctic
ice sheets to multiple - centure climatic warming.
Of course I can not prove that my choice of a ten - year doubling time for nonlinear response is accurate, but I am confident that it provides a far better estimate than a linear response for the ice sheet component of sea level rise under BAU forcin
Of course I can not prove that my choice
of a ten - year doubling time for nonlinear response is accurate, but I am confident that it provides a far better estimate than a linear response for the ice sheet component of sea level rise under BAU forcin
of a ten - year doubling time for nonlinear
response is accurate, but I am confident that it provides a far better estimate than a linear
response for the
ice sheet component
of sea level rise under BAU forcin
of sea level rise under BAU forcing.
They offered a conclusion that the «coupling between surface melting and
ice -
sheet flow provides a mechanism for rapid, large - scale, dynamic
responses of ice sheets to climate warming».
[
Response: Rain on the flanks is not that uncommon, but enough rain on the bulk
of the
ice sheet to affect the surface mass balance as much as you suggest is not on.
Ian Joughin made some statements recently [context] that I thought were pretty solid about it being a few centuries before this kind
of very rapid sea level rise can take place and that makes sense to me because there are some very important things that you have to do in order to turn on the rapid
response of the Antarctic
ice sheet — you have to get rid
of a couple
of big
ice shelves for starters.
This result would be strongly dependent on the exact dynamic
response of the Greenland
ice sheet to surface meltwater, which is modeled poorly in todays global models.Yes human influence on the climate is real and we might even now be able to document changes in the behavior
of weather phenomena related to disasters (e.g., Emanuel 2005), but we certainly haven't yet seen it in the impact record (i.e., economic losses)
of extreme events.
Of course not, the rise will continue approximately at the current rate, as e.g. the ice sheets will continue to melt due to the elevated temperature — it takes hundreds if not thousands of years until they have finished this response to the past warmin
Of course not, the rise will continue approximately at the current rate, as e.g. the
ice sheets will continue to melt due to the elevated temperature — it takes hundreds if not thousands
of years until they have finished this response to the past warmin
of years until they have finished this
response to the past warming.
Surely the IPCC and others at GISS can come up with based on the based available observational evidence and paretial difference equations and paleo climatic data a bloody good guess as to what
response ice sheets will have to a known temperature rise come BAU to overall CO2 levels
of 450 to 550 ppmv come the centurys end.
I first dug in on behavioral and social science research related to global warming views and
responses in 2006, and it quickly became clear that this was the scariest body
of science
of all — topping
ice -
sheet instability and even calling into question the utility
of my profession.
the non linear has only recently with the advent
of powerful computers started recieving proper scientific scrutiny but it is unclear to me that the science
of the past 300 years is as useful because the non linear
response to forcings etc is messy and not as predcitable it would be fair to say and therefore not scienttifically rigourus enough and hence we end up with known unknowns
of being unable to predict future behaviour
of such things as
ice sheets.
This result would be strongly dependent on the exact dynamic
response of the Greenland
ice sheet to surface meltwater, which is modeled poorly in todays global models.
Another is lack
of theory AND long - term data for other things that matter, like
ice -
sheet response to warming.
Ricarda Winkelmann et al. modeled the
response of the Antarctic
ice sheet to a wide range
of future carbon emissions scenarios over the long - term (previous simulations have mainly looked at changes that might occur on a shorter timescale).
The science
of ice melt rates is advancing so fast, scientists have generally been reluctant to put a number to what is essentially an unpredictable, nonlinear
response of ice sheets to a steadily warming ocean.
«Our SIMULATIONS have shown a RATHER significant non-linear
response of the air temperature and winds, when we shrinked the area
of the
ice sheet ``, said physicist Petoukhov.
The fast
response from oceans and vegetation (opposite to each other) leads to a change
of about 3 ppmv / °C, while the long term
response (including
ice sheet / vegetation surface area and - deep - ocean current changes) is about 8 ppmv / °C.
«
Responses of Ice Sheets to Environmental Changes.»