The role of convection and the subsequent condensation
out of water vapour into clouds and then rainfall is currently incapable of quantification as a means of slowing or offsetting any atmospheric greenhouse effect but it certainly does those things.
Instead of heating a fossil fuel, his technique, called solid state ammonia synthesis, works by drawing hydrogen
out of water vapour through a charged membrane, and then reacting it with nitrogen.
Not exact matches
The discovery adds to excitement set off in December, when scientists reported plumes
of water vapour spurting
out at Europa's south pole (L. Roth et al..
On a previous, much closer pass by Enceladus, Cassini detected that the south pole
of Enceladus is spewing
out a vast plume
of water vapour that stretches hundreds
of kilometres from the moon's surface and keeps Saturn's E-ring topped up — but it has now captured the first images
of this activity.
Researchers have been fascinated with Enceladus since July 2005, when Cassini revealed plumes
of ice particles and
water vapour shooting
out from the moon's south pole.
To find
out precisely when, Vitaly Kresin
of the University
of Southern California in Los Angeles blasted
water vapour through a pinhole and added hydrochloric acid to the spray.
Reasoning that, because it fluctuated daily,
water vapour was continually recycling itself in and
out of the atmosphere, he turned his attention to carbon dioxide, a gas resident for a long time in the atmosphere whose concentration was only (at that time) dramatically changed by major sources such as volcanoes or major drawdowns such as unusual and massive episodes
of mineral weathering or the evolution
of photosynthetic plants: events that occur on very long, geological timescales.
It is closed for practical purposes, but some
of the
water vapour in the atmosphere precipitates
out.
There, plumes
of ice and
water vapour were discovered, jetting
out from cracks in its surface.
If the enhanced atmospheric warming from a CO2 - induced temperature rise
of 1 oC results in enhanced
water vapour that gives an additional warming
of say x oC, the overall warming (doubled CO2 +
water vapour feedback; leaving
out other feedbacks for now) will be something like 1.1 * (1 + x + x2 + x3...) or 1.1 / (1 - x)-RSB-.
Have you noticed that
water vapour is pouring
out of the cracks in the Arctic sea ice in stupendous quantities?
If your
water vapour is
out of equilibrium, you will have a forcing that is the systemic response to the
water vapour being
out of equilibrium.
Perhaps this isn't an issue because it would take an impossibly large amount
of CO2 [and
water vapour] for the emission altitude to reach the tropopause, but it's an aspect
of this sort
of explanation that I haven't been able to work
out in my head.
When it reaches a level high enough to cool it to it's «dew point» the
water vapour condenses
out in the form
of clouds and rainfall and the Latent Heat
of Condensation is released into the upper part
of the atmosphere to accelerate the escape
of radiant energy to space.
As you can see, air near the equator is lifted high into the troposphere, effectively drying it by precipitating
out nearly all
of the
water vapour.
The dry band at the northern edge
of the NH Hadley zone results means nearly all
water vapour from the tropics has been precipitated
out.
Of that which travels north, much of it will be precipitated out, with some of that being replaced by newly evaporated water vapour from mid-latitude ocean
Of that which travels north, much
of it will be precipitated out, with some of that being replaced by newly evaporated water vapour from mid-latitude ocean
of it will be precipitated
out, with some
of that being replaced by newly evaporated water vapour from mid-latitude ocean
of that being replaced by newly evaporated
water vapour from mid-latitude oceans.
What I can't work
out is why hasn't the Clean Air Act (that classes CO2 as a pollutant but not
of course
water vapour) got rid
of the «bad air» since the 1970s?
Water has a residence time of 8 - 10 days in the atmosphere, so whenever it rains carbon dioxide is being washed out of the atmosphere, because, water (vapour, liquid, solid) in the atmosphere attracts all carbon dioxide in the vicinity — together forming carbonic acid which gives all natural unpolluted rain its pH of around 5.6
Water has a residence time
of 8 - 10 days in the atmosphere, so whenever it rains carbon dioxide is being washed
out of the atmosphere, because,
water (vapour, liquid, solid) in the atmosphere attracts all carbon dioxide in the vicinity — together forming carbonic acid which gives all natural unpolluted rain its pH of around 5.6
water (
vapour, liquid, solid) in the atmosphere attracts all carbon dioxide in the vicinity — together forming carbonic acid which gives all natural unpolluted rain its pH
of around 5.6 - 8.
It is my understanding that he derived these results from his knowledge
of the infrared properties
of carbon dioxide and
water vapour (and not by curve fitting to observations, though he had also carried
out his own estimates
of changes in global temperature.)
The difference is in the residence time, mainly due to the lack
of water vapour: the stratospheric injection
of SO2 by the Pinatubo did last 2 - 3 years before the reflecting drops were large enough to fall
out of the atmosphere.
A lot
of the post 1995 surface warming is AMO driven, which includes continental interior regions drying
out, and probably the upper troposphere and lower stratosphere declines in
water vapour since 1995.
Laura Yes, the entropy conditions spelled
out by the Second Law
of Thermodynamics establish the fact that
water vapour reduces the warming due to gravity from about 50 degrees back to about 33 degrees.
Meanwhile it does not answer the main point
of my last post, which is that that most climatologists view this aspect
of the earth's environment as «weather» (or statistical noise) and that if you measure temperatures for long enough periods
of time (30 + years) the effect
of clouds, rain and
water vapour average
out and a temperature trend signal will become apparent.
Why do you believe that
water vapour can make clouds under the right atmospheric conditions, yet
water vapour that comes
out of a jet exhaust shouldn't do the same?
The paper also makes a bit
of a digression in pointing
out the erroneous and irresponsible assertion by Dick Lindzen that «about 98 %
of the natural greenhouse effect is due to
water vapour and stratiform clouds withCO2 contributing less than 2 %».
Taking
out the greenhouse gases, which in all logic seeing the effect just a small percentage
of water vapour has on temps need not include any other, then we have Jelbring's experiment, a very good approximation, just by stepping into a desert.
Carbon dioxide is fully part
of that
water cycle where
water heated by the thermal infrared direct from the Sun evaporates and anyway lighter than air rises in air and takes away heat from the surface — all pure clean rain is carbonic acid, the
water vapour spontaneously joining with carbon dioxide in the atmosphere releases its heat in the colder heights and condenses
out back into liquid
water and ice, cooling the Earth from the 67 °C it would be without the
water cycle.
Richard111 Mar 3rd 2011 My question then is did the
water vapour freezing
out of the air provide a positive feedback to the temperature drop?
My question then is did the
water vapour freezing
out of the air provide a positive feedback to the temperature drop?
The reality however is that the release
of sensible energy can not give enough fresh buoyancy as to overcome the loss
of buoyancy when the
water vapour condensed
out.
It can and does suck energy
out of one part
of a system (the ocean skin layer) and place it in another part
of the system (
water vapour in the air).
In the 1850s the Irish physicist John Tyndall figured
out a way to actually test and measure the capacity
of various gases, including nitrogen, oxygen,
water vapour, carbon dioxide, and ozone, to absorb and transmit radiant energy.
So if at this point all GCMs hypothetically turned
out to share similar flaws - e.g. regarding the unknowns for which there's essentially no data - the responses at the LGM
of water vapour, clouds, aerosols etc - wouldn't that undermine validated model approaches to estimating climate sensitivity from even the LGM?
Oh and, while the
water vapour content
of air may be dependent on temperature, cloud cover certainly isn't No, not entirely, but increased
water vapour is the main contributors to cloud formation, and, as you almost point
out, increased temperature increases
water vapour in the atmosphere.
One question, how would a paper which accepted the basic chain
of human emissions - > more CO ₂ in the atmosphere - > warming - > positive feedbacks (
water vapour, etc) but then proposed that there were large negative feedbacks which cancel
out most
of the effect be counted?
I recall one post on how Earth came
out of a snowball, which explanation may be a possibility but then again there may be other explanations (eg., oceanic volcanos splitting in the ice and thereby releasing some
water vapour, soot deposits changing albedo, even meteor collision — who knows given the lack
of evidence).
Because
of its high concentration,
water vapour absorbs to extinction first generation photons (hv) in the main waveband in 120m
of traverse (as many contributors have pointed
out) and CO2 absorbs very little, due to its small concentration.
There is a plethora
of information screaming that man is causing catastrophic climate damage due to GHG emissions with
out any comparison to TOTAL GHGs including
water vapour.
Reasoning that, because it fluctuated daily,
water vapour was continually recycling itself in and
out of the atmosphere, he turned his attention to carbon dioxide, a gas resident for a long time in the atmosphere whose concentration was only (at that time) dramatically changed by major sources such as volcanoes or major drawdowns such as unusual and massive episodes
of mineral weathering or the evolution
of photosynthetic plants: events that occur on very long, geological timescales.
The subtropical regions (e.g. the Mediterranean, North Africa and Central America) experience a drying owing to increased transport
of water vapour out of this area and an expansion
of the subtropical high - pressure regions towards the poles [4].
Just getting through the effective black body discussion knocks half their argument
out of existance, explains why
water vapour doesn't increase across the board as predicted, that most
of the warming happens at nigh time lows, in winter, in arctic zones, and so pretty much doesn't matter.
Now there were two papers put
out by a Swiss team (you should know who) on consideration
of European warming where they argued that natural effects could be ruled
out; the first paper argued for strong
water vapour feedback causing the 1980 to 1998 temperature rise and the later paper, using exactly the same data, argued for a reduction in aerosols causing a recovery in temperatures over the same period.