Is
he talking about climate models?
But we are
talking about climate models and dubious error - filled data and great amounts of self - dealing and rent seeking by the AGW community.
I should say though that I'm
talking about climate models.
Is
he talking about climate models?
That may be true if you are
talking about climate models, but in determining the impact of higher temperatures on ecosystems and agriculture, knowledge about the MWP and other past temperature extremes is likely very interesting.
There is a lot of
talk about climate models not being validated sufficiently, which is obviously not possible until their projections come to pass.
Not exact matches
Penn State
climate modeler Michael Mann
talks about what computer
models can tell us — and what they don't need to.
Doubling of atmospheric carbon dioxide is an oft -
talked -
about threshold, and today's
climate models include accepted values for the
climate's sensitivity to doubling.
Here's my uneducated question — while I respect Gavin's comments
about not abusing the science, it seems to me that many measurable indicators of
climate change are (to the extent I can tell) occurring / progressing / worsening faster than predicted by most
models, whether we're
talking about atmospheric CO2 levels, arctic ice melting, glacial retreat, etc..
It's not like there isn't anything
climate - y to
talk about (sea ice minimums, extreme events,
climate model tunings, past «hyperthermals»... etc.).
Lets
talk about models»
climate sensitivity.
The same is true for the
models of ANY complex system, whether we are
talking about the stock market, economics, population, the weather, or the
climate.
I suspect that it looked OK in your view or you didn't check; «the paper i cited
talks of the hiatus in global temperatures for the past 20 years or so, that the Little Ice Age was global in extent, and that
climate models can not account for the observations we already have let alone make adequate predictions
about what will happen in the future.
I find concerned liberals are loath to
talk about how consistently wrong
climate models have been or
about the «pause» in global warming that has gone on for over fifteen years, while
climate skeptics avoid discussion of things like ocean acidification and accelerated melting in Greenland and the Arctic.
There are many who will not like this recent paper published in Nature Communications on principle as it
talks of the hiatus in global temperatures for the past 20 years or so, that the Little Ice Age was global in extent, and that
climate models can not account for the observations we already have let alone make adequate predictions
about what will happen in the future.
When we
talk about future
climate change, our discussion often stalls at the uncertainties inherent in scientists» statistical
models and forecasts.
Well it depends on whether you are
talking about Climate Sensitivity (Charney sensitivity... which is
modelled) or Earth System Sensitivity (where things like ice sheet extent, vegetation cover etc are regarded as able to respond quickly to warming).
We
talked about a lot of things, but my main point was that whether in finance or in
climate, computer
models typically perform what I call knowledge laundering.
The author's points on non-linearity and time delays are actually more relevant to the discussion in other presentations when I
talked about whether the
climate models that show high future sensitivities to CO2 are consistent with past history, particularly if warming in the surface temperature record is exaggerated by urban biases.
I am
talking about a consensus of multiple lines of evidence (empirical evidence in addition to
modeling, logic etc.) When there is a large degree of uncertainty, as there is in
climate science, a consensus of evidence is most definitely very important.
With all the
talk this week
about future
climate — the global warming imagined by IPCC crystal ball
models, that is — the focus for many is rightly on the gulf between predictions and observations that have taken place so far.
But you * do * keep addressing the issue as if what sort of attitude one shoudl adopt
about the self - government project I'm
talking about in Fla were somehow an extensio nof the debate
about «
climate change
models» & «
climate change science» in some broader sense.
Watch videos by climateprediction.net
climate scientists,
talking about the science of
climate change and our
climate modelling projects.
Finally, you
talk about how to «build confidence» in the
models... this is just like our prior discussion
about building confidence in
climate science.
In my experience this is certainly the case if you
talk about the simulations as predictions rather than projections — the
climate models are not predicting what the weather will be on the 5th of May 2051 — they are providing projections of the
climate based on emission scenarios and initial conditions.
However, its long been apperent that while
climate models and econ
models have similar levels of scientific validity, economists are far more willing to
talk about assumptions their
models make, when and why those assumptions might or might not hold, etc., than
climate scientists.
If Mr. Rose really wants to improve his reporting and do a general service of advancing a true understanding of the issue of anthropogenic
climate change, he needs to do a comprehensive article
about Earth's energy budget, and state quite clearly all the different spheres (all layers of the atmosphere, hyrdosphere, crysosphere, and biosphere) in which the signal of anthropogenic warming is both
modeled as impacting and then
talk about what is data is actually saying in terms of Earth's energy imbalance in all these spheres.
I once attempted to
talk about the limitations of
climate models with Gavin Schmidt on realclimate... Oh.
Please don't hijack the science, and tell people like me, who understand most of the science (other than the intricacies of
climate models) better than 99 % of US citizens, and have followed the science better than 99.8 % of US citizens, that we don't know what we are
talking about.
We're
talking about the latter and you clearly believe in your particular
model here i.e. you believe it is better at describing the
climate than a whole raft of competing
models.
So when he is pointing out «possible common errors» in the
climate models... I guess he knows what he is
talking about...
So he managed to refute Naomi Oreskes 1995 paper then
about climate models in his TED
talk?
For this reason, Shackley et al. found that many
climate modellers didn't want to
talk openly
about their adjustments, in case critics of man - made global warming (who they referred to as «
climate contrarians») would use them to question the reliability of the
models:
Given that law shows that Gleick's behaviour is a criminal offence and given that the whole
climate science sand castle is built upon dodgy
models and statistics, it seems that you've not bothered to understand what you
talk about.
You could go further and
talk about tuning to «emergent constraints» for
climate sensitivity, observational metrics that are correlated with
climate sensitivity when looking across
model ensembles.
Myhrvold and Wood are so sure that they're right
about climate models and geoengineering that they seem to blow off the serious problems and ignore the experts who actually know what the hell they're
talking about — experts like Ken Caldeira and his fellow practicing climatologists.
Having
talked to Feynman
about climate modeling hype in «nuclear winter» s heyday, and been to Cargo Cult country as well, I can testify to the strong structural correspondence of the Melanesian cult's signature artifacts and that wonderful cultural construct, the Wegman Rep0rt.
If the
climate models that are used to predict the reaction to the
climate from natural and anthropogenic effects include positive feedbacks independent of the warming mechnism, then your statement
about such feedbacks not being invoked when
talking about natural warming is manifestly incorrect.
Actually Huang does recognize and
talk about the difference in trends derived for a
climate model between tas and tos using the GFLD CM2.1
model and there the authors report trend differences from 1875 to 2000 where the ocean air temperature trends are higher than the ocean surface temperature trends on the order of what the Cowtan paper found for several CMIP5
models.
By not specifying which
climate models you are
talking about, and making completely general statements like this, you are guaranteed to be wrong.
To the extent you want readers to think of
climate models as a single collective genre, as represented by a core set of processes «based on fundamental laws of nature» it makes sense to
talk about the behaviour of the average of
model runs.
A decade earlier even the Russians arguing
about climate science on the run - up to the SALT
talks, being good materialists, had to concede the diffference between validation and verification — between iterating
model runs and finding out more
about what goes into them.
As for your comment, the fundamental point here is that there can be no «planet
climate model» and «planet observations» when
talking about attribution.
(Part of the How to
Talk to a Global Warming Skeptic guide) Objection: Scientists can't even predict the weather next week, so why should we believe what some
climate model tells us
about 100 years from now?
Chris Colose: As for your comment, the fundamental point here is that there can be no «planet
climate model» and «planet observations» when
talking about attribution.
Offering an inspiring
model for
climate action begins with changing the way we
talk about carbon.
By consulting
climate records and
modeling extreme events with and without added greenhouse gases, scientists can
talk about how much global warming has increased the chances of extreme events — without blaming any one event on warming.
I do follow this debate from a layman's perspective and the one thing I find really confusing is why when
talking about climate science /
climate change and the
models being used, they never
talk about weather modification programs that have been going on for over 70 years around the world.
Detection and attribution of
climate change in the 20th Century gives us some confidence that we know what we are
talking about, as do
model - data comparisons for paleo -
climate.
Others have
talked about what this might look like — regional impacts, measurement quality, reduced funding to GCM
modeling (consistent with their strength in testing subsystems rather than forecasting
climate), and more empirical work and
modeling of those systems that have a large impact on areas of risk.