The Science of Doom article conflates a bunch of issues and is particularly unhelpful for understanding the nature of CO2 and water
vapor as greenhouse gases per se.
Most troubling initially was the effective omission of water
vapor as a greenhouse gas (Figure 1).
There are some aspects of the role of water
vapor as a greenhouse gas that are not well understood, again mainly because we lack the necessary observations to test theoretical models.
Not exact matches
Walter sees the benefits of using methane
as an energy source
as twofold: «Not only does it prevent a potent
greenhouse gas from entering the atmosphere by converting it to weaker
greenhouse gases — water
vapor and carbon dioxide — but using it on - site would also reduce the demand for other fossil - fuel sources.»
The so - called
greenhouse gases — mainly water
vapor and carbon dioxide — make the planet warm and habitable by trapping solar heat
as it radiates back off the Earth.
This effect makes the atmosphere act somewhat like a blanket that becomes thicker when amounts of water
vapor, carbon dioxide and other
greenhouse gases, such
as methane and nitrous oxide, increase.
While the ECS factors in such «fast» feedback effects
as changes in water
vapor — water itself is a
greenhouse gas, and saturates warm air better than cold — they argued that slow feedbacks, such
as changes in ice sheets and vegetation, should also be considered.
To heat that boiler, the damp, crumbly brown coal known
as lignite — which is even more polluting than the harder black anthracite variety — burns in the presence of pure oxygen, a process known
as oxyfuel, releasing
as waste both water
vapor and that more notorious
greenhouse gas, carbon dioxide (CO2).
We call this the Charney climate sensitivity, because it is essentially the case considered by Charney (1979), in which water
vapor, clouds and sea ice were allowed to change in response to climate change, but GHG (
greenhouse gas) amounts, ice sheet area, sea level and vegetation distributions were taken
as specified boundary conditions.
I may have become «Old School,» but back in the 70's water
vapor was described (canonically)
as a «
Greenhouse Gas.»
Release of massive amounts of water
vapor that then somehow does not behave
as a
greenhouse gas.
Obviously, sensitivity to radiative forcing of
greenhouse gases (not water
vapor, but CO2 and CH4) can't include feedbacks of those same
gases — those are defined
as forcings in such a sensitivity.
1) Scientists have long known that
greenhouse gases in the atmosphere — such
as carbon dioxide, methane, or water
vapor — absorb certain frequencies of infrared radiation and scatter them back toward the Earth.
As warmer air can hold more water
vapor, which is also a
greenhouse gas, this will amplify the effect.
This acts
as a positive feedback on the surface warming, because water
vapor itself is a powerful
greenhouse gas that, like CO2, absorbs and re-emits longwave radiation back to the surface.
You appear to have your knickers all twisted about the generally accepted
greenhouse theory, which states that GH
gases (primarily water
vapor, plus some smaller ones, such
as CO2) keep our planet warmer than it would otherwise be if they were not in our atmosphere.
One driver of temperatures in this region is the abundance and variability of ozone, but water
vapor, volcanic aerosols, and dynamical changes such
as the Quasi - Biennial Oscillation (QBO) are also significant; anthropogenic increases in other
greenhouse gases such
as carbon dioxide play a lesser but significant role in the lower stratosphere.
So basically earth would somewhat similar to Earth without a
greenhouse effect, and strange
as it may seem, it would a world without
greenhouse effect
as the would be a shortage of the most dominant
greenhouse gas the earth has: water
vapor.
The heat caused by infrared radiation is absorbed by
greenhouse gases such
as water
vapor, carbon dioxide, ozone and methane, which slows its escape from the atmosphere.
These so - called
greenhouse gases include carbon dioxide and water
vapor,
as well
as ozone and methane among others.
But instead water
vapor, CO2 and other «
greenhouse»
gases just affect the «passage of radiation»
as it travels through the atmosphere.
It is often mentioned
as a somewhat routine talking point that «water
vapor is the most important
greenhouse gas.»
A substantial reduction in water
vapor (shown below, from Lacis et al (2010)
as well
as increase in the surface albedo are important feedbacks here, showing that removing the non-condensing
greenhouse gases (mostly CO2) in the atmosphere can collapse nearly the entire terrestrial
greenhouse effect.
BUT, the question remains:» why CO2 & water
vapor are referred to,
as Greenhouse gases?
Its warming effect, however, is simultaneously amplified and dampened by positive and negative feedbacks such
as increased water
vapor (the most powerful
greenhouse gas), reduced albedo, which is a measure of Earth's reflectivity, changes in cloud characteristics, and CO2 exchanges with the ocean and terrestrial ecosystems.
As I understand it the water
vapor is the most forceful
greenhouse gas.
Then more water evaporates (
as an avid student of 50 + years of scientific literature, you must know that the water
vapor is the worst
greenhouse gas of all), thus potentially exacerbating the warming.
Besides carbon dioxide,
greenhouse gases include water
vapor, methane (natural
gas), nitrous oxide (from fertilizer use), and chlorine - and fluorine - containing
gases used in air conditioning units and
as solvents.
For years it was widely believed among scientists that water
vapor so outshone other potential
greenhouse gases as to render their warming contributions moot.
Water
vapor is more difficult to measure than the other
greenhouse gases and scientists are uncertain
as to the exact part that it plays in global warming.
To name two examples, both John Tyndall — who first discovered the roles of water
vapor and carbon dioxide
as greenhouse gases in 1859 - 60 — and Svante Arrhenius — who hand - calculated the first model of
greenhouse warming in 1896 — used this terminology in the titles of their ground - breaking papers.
A third issue I have with the ICCP is the fact they do not list water
vapor as being a
greenhouse gas on their list of such
gases (see their web site).
It make the AGW theory * stronger * or the climate guys are underestimating the effect of CO2 and water
vapor [
as greenhouse gases].
GREENHOUSE EFFECT Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (such as water vapor and carbon dioxide) absorb most of the Earth's emitted longwave infrared radiation, which heats the lower a
GREENHOUSE EFFECT
Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (such as water vapor and carbon dioxide) absorb most of the Earth's emitted longwave infrared radiation, which heats the lower a
Greenhouse gases in the atmosphere (such
as water
vapor and carbon dioxide) absorb most of the Earth's emitted longwave infrared radiation, which heats the lower atmosphere.
As such, water
vapor should be called a «swamp cooler»
gas and not a «
greenhouse»
gas.
The physics is very clear that CO2 is the principal
greenhouse forcing
gas, and that atmospheric water
vapor acts
as a feedback magnifier that enhances the terrestrial
greenhouse effect.
I guess my question now is why CO2 trumps water
vapor as the prime
greenhouse gas even though there is so much more water
vapor in the atmosphere relative to CO2 and other
greenhouse gases.
Indeed, strong observational evidence and results from modeling studies indicate that, at least over the last 50 years, human activities are a major contributor to climate change.Direct human impact is through changes in the concentration of certain trace
gases such
as carbon dioxide, chlorofluorocarbons, methane, nitrous oxide, ozone, and water
vapor, known collectively
as greenhouse gases.
As the concentration of gaseous water (water «
vapor») in the atmosphere is on the order of 3o, 000 to 40,000 ppm, this trace
greenhouse gas really * is * the invisible 800 lb gorilla in the room even if we ignore the phase change effects.
Elevating CO2 above water
vapor as the most important
greenhouse gas in our atmosphere, takes a very myopic view of the physics of the atmosphere and the physics of the solar system.
A. Lacis writes «The physics is very clear that CO2 is the principal
greenhouse forcing
gas, and that atmospheric water
vapor acts
as a feedback magnifier that enhances the terrestrial
greenhouse effect.
As to my sources, maybe you should read some, I almost always quote from actual peer reviewed science (obviously foreign to you since you think sizes of numbers is science), like this one that says that long lived
greenhouse gases are the control knob and that water
vapor (with its lifetime of a couple of weeks) just reacts to changes.
Instead, the aim of our Science paper was to illustrate
as clearly and
as simply
as possible the basic operating principles of the terrestrial
greenhouse effect in terms of the sustaining radiative forcing that is provided by the non-condensing
greenhouse gases, which is further augmented by the feedback response of water
vapor and clouds.
As a neighbor Oregonian, I'm all for more trees but it would seem contrary to the arguments other environmental websites speak about lowering albedo and that water
vapor is, in itself, a
greenhouse gas.
Also, while we have good atmospheric measurements of other key
greenhouse gases such
as carbon dioxide and methane, we have poor measurements of global water
vapor, so it is not certain by how much atmospheric concentrations have risen in recent decades or centuries, though satellite measurements, combined with balloon data and some in - situ ground measurements indicate generally positive trends in global water
vapor.»
Greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), water vapor, and fluorinated gases, act like a greenhouse around
Greenhouse gases, such
as carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), water
vapor, and fluorinated
gases, act like a
greenhouse around
greenhouse around the earth.
A «Green House
Gas Effect» refers to a reduction in the outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) resulting from an increase in a greenhouse gas, such as water vapor, at a given surface temperatu
Gas Effect» refers to a reduction in the outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) resulting from an increase in a
greenhouse gas, such as water vapor, at a given surface temperatu
gas, such
as water
vapor, at a given surface temperature.
We know by lab measurements that CO2 and water
vapor are
greenhouse gases (
as are methane, nitrogen oxides etc).
3 Further complicating the response of the different atmospheric levels to increases in
greenhouse gases are other processes such
as those associated with changes in the concentration and distribution of atmospheric water
vapor and clouds.
The Equilibrium Climate Sensitivity (ECS) The Economist refers to is how much Earth temperatures are expected to rise when one includes fast feedbacks such
as atmospheric water
vapor increase and the initial
greenhouse gas forcing provided by CO2.