Source: https://www.audible.com/search?searchAuthor=Stan+Tatkin+PsyD&ref=a_search_c3_lAuthor_1_1_1&pf_rd_p=e81b7c27-6880-467a-b5a7-13cef5d729fe&pf_rd_r=4AX4EHQNNM4E3X6WJ9XX&